Sauer Braces

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RoscoTrombone
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Sauer Braces

Post by RoscoTrombone » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:42 pm

I've just come across this set on ebay...I'm assuming that asking £500 for them is more than a little steep.

I'm tempted to send him a cheeky message telling him to put a realistic price on it!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203099268410

Ross
ParLawGod
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by ParLawGod » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:06 pm

I know someone who makes a similiar product called the ToneLure, might be a less expensive alternative.

http://emersonmusical.com/cgi-local/sho ... y=TNLR0001

Here's a link to who makes them now: https://www.mkdrawing.com/tbbrace/
Last edited by ParLawGod on Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Elow
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by Elow » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:10 pm

What are these supposed to do? Another tone gizmo?
Thrawn22
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by Thrawn22 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:36 pm

Elow wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:10 pm
What are these supposed to do? Another tone gizmo?
Supposed to limit the vibration lost in the slide by creating a point if resistance at the slide crook. It's supposed to help with tone/sound.

At least that's what I've heard.
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harrisonreed
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by harrisonreed » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:14 pm

Elow wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:10 pm
What are these supposed to do? Another tone gizmo?
They mess with the nodes. It changes the way the horn plays, not the tone. Very little changes the tone of an instrument out front, in the audience, besides maybe the mouthpiece cup or switching trombones entirely.
Dennis
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by Dennis » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:49 pm

For $600 US I'll bet you could get a machinist to make several sets for you. It isn't that complex: it's basically a fancy turnbuckle. One side is left-hand thread, the other is right-hand thread. If I were having a set made I think I'd leave space for silicone pads at the contact points.
brtnats
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by brtnats » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:09 am

Specifically, they change the slotting and projection of the horn. I notice the slots feel much more defined, and that lets you lean into them a little more heavily. The whole horn projects better, at the expense of some timbre flexibility. I loved them on large and medium bore LW slides, not so much on standard slides.
Thrawn22
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by Thrawn22 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:25 pm

brtnats wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:09 am
Specifically, they change the slotting and projection of the horn. I notice the slots feel much more defined, and that lets you lean into them a little more heavily. The whole horn projects better, at the expense of some timbre flexibility. I loved them on large and medium bore LW slides, not so much on standard slides.
That sounds like the way to compensate for the loss of focus on some LW slide setups without adding too much weight.
brtnats
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by brtnats » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:44 am

It was GREAT on my Bach LW nickel. On a Yamaha full weight yellow brass, I still feel the effects but they’re not as pronounced. I still definitely do notice a stronger slot on the trigger notes.
RoscoTrombone
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by RoscoTrombone » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:21 pm

Bringing this back to the top as I was looking online at the M/K one and I have a question about the design which hopefully can be answered by those who know...

So as stated I was looking at them as I had my slide out. If it's attached by using the threads to lock it into place then how can that be achieved? Surely if the ends are shaped to fit snugly then you can't screw them in as it won't fully turn and similarly if you have it "set" first then it still won't fit in without causing damage to the lacquer as you force it into place

I was thinking that having a spring inside the brace which would allow for a much easier fitting, a bit like if your watch strap comes off and you anchor one end in as you use the spring to manoeuvre the other end into place. You then have a thread for the middle part which would allow it to be moved to the middle.

Ross
hornbuilder
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by hornbuilder » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:10 pm

It works like a turnbuckle.
Matthew Walker
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Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia, 1991-2006
RoscoTrombone
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by RoscoTrombone » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:31 pm

I get that but if the ends are curved to fit then how can it be rotated into place with the right tension without damaging the slide?

Or am I missing something?

Forgive my ignorance here but I'm just trying to visualise it & because I can't it's bugging me!
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harrisonreed
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by harrisonreed » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:43 pm

RoscoTrombone wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:31 pm
I get that but if the ends are curved to fit then how can it be rotated into place with the right tension without damaging the slide?

Or am I missing something?

Forgive my ignorance here but I'm just trying to visualise it & because I can't it's bugging me!
It looks like the rods rotate independently of one another, and are held together by the piece in the middle, but allowed to fully rotate within that piece. So, holding the curved part in place while it's mostly threaded on, you rotate the bar within it, which pushes the rest of it away and creates tension. Don't over tighten.
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BGuttman
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by BGuttman » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:51 pm

RoscoTrombone wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:31 pm
I get that but if the ends are curved to fit then how can it be rotated into place with the right tension without damaging the slide?

Or am I missing something?

Forgive my ignorance here but I'm just trying to visualise it & because I can't it's bugging me!
A turnbuckle (look it up) consists of a bar with a right-handed thread at one end and a left-handed thread at the other. Each has a threaded insert. So as you turn the bar, both ends either expand or contract.

So you would manually adjust the spread of the turnbuckle to be close to the size of the gap and then tighten it in place by rotating the central bar.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
RoscoTrombone
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by RoscoTrombone » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:30 am

I woke up during the night and that's when my brain realised!

There's something my dad used to say all the time..." I see I see said the blind man" which is quite appropriate here I think.

Thank you folks, my life can get be unpaused now 😆
ChadA
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by ChadA » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:13 am

I used one for a while. It's easy to get it too tight (slide gets slow because you're pushing the tubes outward) or too loose (it falls off in William Tell). :) Finding the right tension is a little tricky but once you get it right it'll stay in place pretty well.
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bassclef
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by bassclef » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:08 am

I tried one of those braces when I was in college in the late 90's when the Sauer braces were just released. The one I tried was made by a local guy named Stan Matras.

The only significant change I noticed (on my YBL-613) was that it needed a lot more effort to start notes, in all registers, at all dynamics.
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dukesboneman
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by dukesboneman » Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:40 am

I`ve been wondering what difference one of the braces would make on an F attachment slide.
I have a 42BO and the "F" slide is roughly the same size as a Bach 12 handslide.
The F slide has no brace on it now. Any thoughts?
hornbuilder
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Re: Sauer Braces

Post by hornbuilder » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:54 am

The problem with the F slide is there is nothing to stop the brace from opening the span too far. You would be much better off having an actual brace soldered on. If you think it needs it.
Matthew Walker
Owner/Craftsman, M&W Custom Trombones, LLC
Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia, 1991-2006
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