Olda Marching trombone tuning?

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dershem
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Olda Marching trombone tuning?

Post by dershem » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:30 pm

I"ve been looking for a while to find a trigger I could install on the 1st valve of my Olds Marching trombone - it would aid intonation on 13 and 123 valve combinations. Even my local tech is stymied. Any suggestions?
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BrassedOn
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Re: Olda Marching trombone tuning?

Post by BrassedOn » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:31 am

I have a Blessing with similar wrap. Yeah, the first slide is too far from the valve for a simple saddle for the thumb.

Could you flip a Bach trumpet 3rd slide mech, and put on the 1st slide? I think it could reach, with right thumb in the loop. https://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/p ... s_id=23815
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doctortrombone
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Re: Olda Marching trombone tuning?

Post by doctortrombone » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:32 pm

It's possible, but you have to reverse the upper tubes on the first valve tuning slide. If you remove both top tubes on the first valve tuning slide and attach the top inner leg to the stub sticking out of the valve cluster, you will have a male tube on the horn side. Then take the female tube that was originally attached to the valve cluster, and attach it to the upper half of the first valve crook. You can put a saddle on that upper tube, and use a trumpet ring.
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Matt K
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Re: Olda Marching trombone tuning?

Post by Matt K » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:50 pm

Might it be easier to install a mechanism to adjust the main tuning slide? On the flugabones that I've owned, the 1st valve touches my chin when pulled too far out... and by too far I mean like still sharp but acceptably so that it doesn't hit my chin.

I also thought about having a 4th valve added to mine but that's probably a lot of work for something that... well... probably isn't worth it lol
doctortrombone
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Re: Olda Marching trombone tuning?

Post by doctortrombone » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:44 pm

I just started the process on mine. I didn't want to do the main tuning slide, for two reasons. The main slide needs to have a set position for general tuning, and if you put a trigger on it, you lose that set position. Also, lapped-in slides leak air slightly. That's not too bad on a valve slide, but it would cause problems on a main slide.

Things you'll need to do the conversion:

A longer ferrule for the upper inner, for support.
A receiver for the trumpet third-valve ring--basically a fitting for a trumpet lyre.
An offset trumpet third-valve ring, since it's impossible to work the slide if everything is in the same plane. The ring needs to be moved 3/4" to the left, putting it in plane with the valve cluster.

You'll have to cut around 1/4" off of the upper outer slide tube, and remove the original brace on the first valve tubing.

I got mine pretty much done, with the exception of the ring itself. The only extra one I had was made in China, and it wouldn't take the necessary dogleg bend without breaking off. The round part of the ring has to be ovalized, unless you've got very small thumbs.

So yes, it's doable, but I'm not sure how worthwhile it is. Real adjustable valve slides have expanded "stockings" which allow them to move faster. This one uses tubing that's all the same diameter, so it will never be as smooth as a factor valve slide.
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dershem
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Re: Olda Marching trombone tuning?

Post by dershem » Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:39 pm

BrassedOn wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:31 am
I have a Blessing with similar wrap. Yeah, the first slide is too far from the valve for a simple saddle for the thumb.

Could you flip a Bach trumpet 3rd slide mech, and put on the 1st slide? I think it could reach, with right thumb in the loop. https://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/p ... s_id=23815
I asked my tech about that, and he said it wouldn't work. Still thinking about it, though (something about clearance for some moving parts)
Thanks for the thoughts.
doctortrombone
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Re: Olda Marching trombone tuning?

Post by doctortrombone » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:43 am

dershem wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:39 pm
ut that, and he said it wouldn't work.
It works. It just takes some serious modifications and a lot of time. Things to think about:

You're basically building a tiny trombone slide. Tolerances have to be down to a few thousandths. That takes a lot of alignment work.

Even when well aligned, the action has to be set according to wherever the mounting point is set. That "point of moment" is also affected by the shape and position of the activating lever.

Once all of that is set up, it takes about half an hour of "hand-lap/clean/lube/test/repeat" before it's going to be anywhere near usable. Your tech is in for three or four hours of fabrication and alignment work.

As Matt pointed out, you get a little over an inch of travel before the slide crook strikes your chin.

That said, here's what a completed adjustable first valve for an Olds compact marching trombone looks like:

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Matt K
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Re: Olda Marching trombone tuning?

Post by Matt K » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:43 pm

Very similar solution that would be more expensive but would make it so you wouldn't have to have it be so close to your chin would be to angle the slides at a diagonal with the tubing (like 45 degrees) so that the tubing goes off to your right. Not sure if there woudl be enough tubing to solder to after you changed the angle of it though so you might ruin the valve section in the process. You'd then have to rig some kind of lever to push it back and forth though because it wouldn't be parallel with your fingers.
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dershem
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Re: Olda Marching trombone tuning?

Post by dershem » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:06 pm

Yeah, but that's not a trigger, doctortrombone. An idea, but not what I'm after. Thanks for the pics, though.
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Finetales
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Re: Olda Marching trombone tuning?

Post by Finetales » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:46 am

Matt K wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:50 pm
I also thought about having a 4th valve added to mine but that's probably a lot of work for something that... well... probably isn't worth it lol
I've had that exact same thought with mine. It has a great low range.
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Re: Olda Marching trombone tuning?

Post by doctortrombone » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:15 pm

dershem wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:06 pm
Yeah, but that's not a trigger, doctortrombone. An idea, but not what I'm after. Thanks for the pics, though.
But you get the idea, right? You need a slight dogleg on the activating arm, but really not much. Most trumpet triggers have their activating arm slightly to the right of the valve cluster. With a modified slide like the one in the picture and the rear pivot mounted to the inner surface of the slide, you should be able to use a trumpet first-valve slide trigger with no problem.
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