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Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:31 pm
by PaKETaZ
I already approached the subject, but it was not in its own specific topic.

I have an ugly SS from 60’s I think. It’s 70%-80% lacquered.

Do you think I can unlacquer it without messing too much the sonic properties? I like it a lot, but it needs a better look.

Has anyone ever done this before?

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:41 am
by brassmedic
I like Dupicolor paint stripper, available at auto parts stores. You're going to get other suggestions here. Probably all good.

EDIT: Since this thread got resurrected, I'll point out that this product is not available anymore. :frown:

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:38 am
by paulyg
Make sure that you follow the instructions regarding PPE (personal protective equipment) for whatever you use. Some of the products you can get are pretty nasty when touched/inhaled (hint: some require the expensive kind of respirators).

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:45 am
by BGuttman
paulyg wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:38 am Make sure that you follow the instructions regarding PPE (personal protective equipment) for whatever you use. Some of the products you can get are pretty nasty when touched/inhaled (hint: some require the expensive kind of respirators).
And some need good ventilation. Best done outdoors.

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:25 pm
by PaKETaZ
Thank you all. I’ve already unlacquered a few trombones and you are right: one has to be very careful with products.

What I’d specifically like to know is how this will affect this horn. Feelings and sonic qualities.

I know unlacquering always changes something on any instrument, but I don’t know how much it will affect a sterling silver bell specifically.

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:45 pm
by BGuttman
Strong alkalis will attack the silver and you may wind up polishing more material off, although that is also the case for the copper in brass.

I wouldn't expect a different response due to the stripper used, but the buffing can make all the difference in the world.

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:43 pm
by CalgaryTbone
I stripped the lacquer off of a sterling 3B that I wanted to sell. In that case, the lacquer that was missing from the bell had come off in large strips - I think a previous owner had cleaned the horn in hot water. The effect was that when you looked at the bell, it was kind of like looking at a map with islands surrounded by water - large shapes made up of lacquered silver, surrounded by equally large shapes without lacquer.

I didn't like the horn, because I found that it played very unevenly - good notes/registers and equally bad notes. When I removed the lacquer, it was really to just make the horn cosmetically better for sale, but I also found that the uneven response seemed to go away, and the horn played better. My other couple of attempts at removing lacquer didn't seem to make as much of a difference to how the instrument played. It was definitely a winner for that particular 3B. Not sure how much the odd placement of bare metal vs. lacquer coated metal had to do with it. I kind of regretted selling that horn, but I already had a buyer lined up. He loved it.

Jim Scott

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:15 am
by whitbey
I stripped an Edwards. I spent more on chems then I paid the tech to finish the job.
Wished I just let him do it at the start.

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:04 am
by tbonesullivan
Yeah, that is something to consider. Most techs have far more experience removing finishes than the average person, and access to the proper substances, tools, and hazmat disposal methods.

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:34 am
by bigbandbone
Back in the 80's I Ran the brass dept for a big music store in Wisconsin. I did a lot of polish and lacquer overhauls! The only reliable way to strip King lacquer back then was a hot lye tank. It left a lot of scale on the horn. Hopefully there's a better way now.

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:05 pm
by Sniffynose
I removed the lacquer from my 2B Silversonic recently and I liked the results. Although, this wasn’t the stock application of lacquer; definitely an after market job.

Noticed more feedback from behind the bell and sound felt slightly wider and more lively.
I then applied 1 coat of spray on matte lacquer so I wouldn’t have to polish it. This tamed the liveliness a bit, which is fine, and the rest stayed the same. Tuning not affected.
I am taking this off to get Vapor blasted this weekend and then intend to apply 1 light coat of lacquer again to keep it clean and tame it a bit. Will post pics when done

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 1:13 pm
by greenbean
I removed the lacquer from a very good 3BSS and it seemed even better after!

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 4:32 pm
by Sniffynose
I might do the same to my 3BSS depending on the results from my 2BSS

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 7:23 am
by hornbuilder
The amount of metal removed in hand polishing is virtually zero. It would take "years" of diligent hard work to get any sort of noticeable change in thickness using hand applied commercial polishes.

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:26 pm
by ryebrye
Does really hot water or Citristrip work on 70s era silversonic lacquer? I'm going to help a friend who just got a 3B silversonic that looks kind of crappy because the lacquer is gone in some spots and it's tarnished there, and the places the laquer is still present it's got a yellow tint to it and it doesn't look very good.

Is the gold wash inside the bell under the lacquer? The lacquer on the inside looks ok, so if I could keep it that'd be nice - but it I end up having to strip that too, does it leave it all stainless or does it still have a gold wash in there?

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:41 pm
by harrisonreed
Nothing works on that 70s King lacquer other than blood sweat and tears. The gold wash is basically lacquer, from what I gather.

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:41 pm
by Burgerbob
On the gold stuff, EZ off and a steam cleaner work wonders. The clear stuff on silversonics is different, I'm not sure how hardy it is.

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 3:56 am
by ryebrye
Burgerbob wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:41 pm On the gold stuff, EZ off and a steam cleaner work wonders. The clear stuff on silversonics is different, I'm not sure how hardy it is.
I'll try boiling water on the remaining clear silversonic stuff and see how it goes. Now that I think about it, a steam cleaner might be the easiest way to hit it with hot water if it's susceptible to heat.

Clearly the clear lacquer on the outside of the 70s silversonic isn't invincible because a pretty sizeable section of it is gone already in one patch... (And it's not just little scratches here or there, it's like an inch wide band running up the side of the bell) It'll be a little while until I meet up with him to help him out (he just barely bought it, hasn't even arrived yet) but we'll test a section out with a steam cleaner first.

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:10 am
by hornbuilder
The gold wash inside the bells of the Silversonic instruments is actual gold, not lacquer, but it was applied using a brush/electrode, (thus the term "wash") instead of being dipped in a plating tank. It is thin! But it "should" be safe to use paint removal chems, as long as they're not abrasive.

Re: Unlacquering a Silversonic

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:23 am
by harrisonreed
I was totally wrong! Good to know!