Chrome Plated Brass Slide Tubes?

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TromboneMonkey
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 9:58 am

Chrome Plated Brass Slide Tubes?

Post by TromboneMonkey » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:52 am

My Williams slide is wearing a teeeeny tiny bit on one of the inners.

It seems in looking at it that, interestingly, the inners are made from chrome-plated brass, not chrome-plated nickel.

Is this common/uncommon? Would it affect the sound? Would it be possible to have replacement brass tubes drawn if mine are in fact brass?

My Williams sounds better than any other trombone I've played (except, of course, other Williams). If they are in fact brass tubes, I wouldn't want to make the mistake of replacing them with nickel ones and expect a similar result-- not that I'm in a hurry to replace them in the near future.
Jnoxon
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:05 pm

Re: Chrome Plated Brass Slide Tubes?

Post by Jnoxon » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:18 pm

Williams are brass tubes, some nickel, some chrome depending on when it was made. Which model horn is it? The problem being Williams used very long slide tubes compared to most other horns. The .500 bore model 6 is fairly easy to retube but the problem is inner and out must be changed at the same time because of the diameter the stocking. Conn 100H tubes are long enough to do the job. If its a model 4 you might be in trouble because no one currently makes a .490 bore horn. I just put new tubes on one of my model 4's and had to have Kanstul draw them for me. Both inner and outer tubes. Is was around $525 for the 4 tubes.

I have seen Earl's horns at 80 years old and the alignment is still fantastic. I would suggest having some one like the Slide Dr, or John Duda look at the slide and make sure there are no issue. You may not feel anything but it could still be there. If its just really minor and is fixed now it will last for years to come. I have one model 6 with very slight wear that you can see, but can't fell and I've been playing it for about 30 years now. The worn spot is still there but not getting any bigger.

If you need contact information for John Duda PM me and I'll get it to you.
J
Williams 4,6, 8, 9, and 10
.490, .500, .520, .520, .565 bore sizes.
doctortrombone
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:50 pm
Location: Washington

Re: Chrome Plated Brass Slide Tubes?

Post by doctortrombone » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:48 pm

So for a Williams 4, couldn't you retube with King 2B lowers, both inner and outer? Seems like the .491 wouldn't be much different from the .490, and is even within the margin of error for most calipers. Were the original outers nickel, or brass?

Generally, for redoing inners, you need to know the outer diameter of the stockings. Allied has a chart that shows the stocking ODs, so it's not too difficult to find an existing inner that will match up. Of course, if we're just talking about a small area of wear on the original Williams inners, stick with them. They should give you a couple more decades of use.
Doug Elliott
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:12 pm

Re: Chrome Plated Brass Slide Tubes?

Post by Doug Elliott » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:11 pm

I know the (Tennessee) Williams 4 he's talking about, and it's had a lot of use since it was new in 1990. The stocking OD is .522 and the outer slide ID is .528
A 2B stocking is .519 and the outer slide ID is .529, so it has more clearance but would be usable if the length is close enough.

Those are my measurements. Not sure if other 2B's may vary from that. In the case of the 2B, both upper and lower tubes measure the same although the bores are .281 and .291.

In most case a small spot of wear doesn't really make any difference and may remain stable for decades.
doctortrombone
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:50 pm
Location: Washington

Re: Chrome Plated Brass Slide Tubes?

Post by doctortrombone » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:43 pm

.522 is the same as the lower slide of an Olds smallbore tenor. Ambassadors, Specials, Studios and a few others used them. Allied still lists them, but I don't know if they're still in stock. Then again, you can pick up a used Ambassador with good stockings for less than $100.
TromboneMonkey
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 9:58 am

Re: Chrome Plated Brass Slide Tubes?

Post by TromboneMonkey » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:12 pm

Jnoxon wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:18 pm
Williams are brass tubes, some nickel, some chrome depending on when it was made. Which model horn is it? The problem being Williams used very long slide tubes compared to most other horns. The .500 bore model 6 is fairly easy to retube but the problem is inner and out must be changed at the same time because of the diameter the stocking. Conn 100H tubes are long enough to do the job. If its a model 4 you might be in trouble because no one currently makes a .490 bore horn. I just put new tubes on one of my model 4's and had to have Kanstul draw them for me. Both inner and outer tubes. Is was around $525 for the 4 tubes.

I have seen Earl's horns at 80 years old and the alignment is still fantastic. I would suggest having some one like the Slide Dr, or John Duda look at the slide and make sure there are no issue. You may not feel anything but it could still be there. If its just really minor and is fixed now it will last for years to come. I have one model 6 with very slight wear that you can see, but can't fell and I've been playing it for about 30 years now. The worn spot is still there but not getting any bigger.

If you need contact information for John Duda PM me and I'll get it to you.
Thanks! As Doug said, it's a Tennessee 4. The slide plays so smoothly compared to other slides I've used. If what Doug says is correct about it lasting for decades longer, I might just not worry about it.

I've played a Duda 8 and it was fantastic!

I'm glad to know they're brass tubes. I wonder if that's one of the reasons for the excellence in the timbre. I recently played a gig with a bunch of dyed-in-the-wool Bach players and they all admitted my horn sounded downright better than any of their MVs due to the mids. One player said "it would be like playing into a ribbon except all the time".
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