Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post Reply
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4489
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by harrisonreed »

Hi everyone!

I am still waiting on a response to an inquiry to Griego Mouthpieces (only just asked today), but I figured I'd ask here as well:

Are there CNC shops around that do one off mouthpieces? Say you had a blank and cup/backbore profile that you really liked, but wanted a specific rim contour -- are there shops that would do the CAD work?

Or, say you created a CAD profile -- are there CNC shops that you could send your file to and have them make it for you?

FWIW, I asked Griego Mouthpieces if they would edit the CAD file for one specific mouthpiece, but use the rim contour of another one that is the same diameter.
User avatar
Doug Elliott
Posts: 2950
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:12 pm
Location: Maryand

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by Doug Elliott »

I do modifications like that to my own mouthpiece designs all the time, but not copies of others.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
Schlitz
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:01 am

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by Schlitz »

.
Last edited by Schlitz on Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
LeTromboniste
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:22 am
Location: Sion, CH

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by LeTromboniste »

I'm curious, for a one-off mouthpiece, wouldn't be easier and cheaper to just bring the mouthpiece you want altered to a good craftsman that can do the job for you on a regular lathe? Is there a particular reason you want the design to be computer encoded?
Maximilien Brisson
www.maximilienbrisson.com
Lecturer for baroque trombone,
Hfk Bremen/University of the Arts Bremen
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4489
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by harrisonreed »

LeTromboniste wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:13 pm I'm curious, for a one-off mouthpiece, wouldn't be easier and cheaper to just bring the mouthpiece you want altered to a good craftsman that can do the job for you on a regular lathe? Is there a particular reason you want the design to be computer encoded?
In this case, it wouldn't be a subtractive process. The Alessi rim is wider than the thin Bousfield rim. Griego already has both CAD files.

Also, no one has these unique blanks to just throw on a lathe
User avatar
LeTromboniste
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:22 am
Location: Sion, CH

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by LeTromboniste »

harrisonreed wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:34 pm In this case, it wouldn't be a subtractive process. The Alessi rim is wider than the thin Bousfield rim.
Ah yes I see!
Maximilien Brisson
www.maximilienbrisson.com
Lecturer for baroque trombone,
Hfk Bremen/University of the Arts Bremen
sungfw
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:15 am

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by sungfw »

Know any university students or staff? Many, if not most, universities—particularly schools with engineering, hard science, and/or medical programs—have "hothouse" labs that provide students and staff access to all kinds of high end equipment, from laser scanners to 3d metal printers to CNC mills to industrial laser cutters. Depending on the school, the labs may be restricted to students/staff of a particular department or open to all.

Alternatively, if you have both mouthpieces, any decent CNC milling company should be able to scan the mouthpieces and merge the rim of one with the cup of the other. (If I'm remembering correctly, you're with a military (Army?) band. Assuming that's the case, ask around: you might find a military machinist who'd be willing to make one for you.)
mrdeacon
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 2:05 am
Location: Los Angeles, California

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by mrdeacon »

Another option would be to have Doug or Bob Reeves lop off the original Griego rim and replace it with a custom spec rim of their making.

Might be the best way to do it if Griego won't make you a custom piece.
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
User avatar
JohnL
Posts: 1563
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:01 am
Contact:

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by JohnL »

LeTromboniste wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:13 pm I'm curious, for a one-off mouthpiece, wouldn't be easier and cheaper to just bring the mouthpiece you want altered to a good craftsman that can do the job for you on a regular lathe? Is there a particular reason you want the design to be computer encoded?
Just in case it ends up being totally awesome and your friends want one just like it.

I had scans made of an original Olds G (George Roberts ) and an original Olds F alto with the intent that others could get copies made if they wanted them (the F alto is one of the few mouthpieces that actually works on an Olds alto). Unfortunately, those scans are apparently lost forever (collateral damage in the Kansul situation).
GabrielRice
Posts: 979
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:20 am
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Contact:

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by GabrielRice »

You could try Peter Pickett.
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4489
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by harrisonreed »

Thanks for the responses so far guys!

I do vaguely remember Kanstul doing custom mouthpieces, but that feature vanished from their website years ago, before the current troubles.
User avatar
SwissTbone
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by SwissTbone »

You could also try Antonio Rappacciuolo at AR Resonance in Italy.
ƒƒ---------------------------------------------------ƒƒ
Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4489
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by harrisonreed »

Is there a way to cast a mouthpiece without damaging it so you could graph a cross section?
bimmerman
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:15 pm
Location: Menlo Park

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by bimmerman »

How much are you looking to spend to get a cross section?

You could potentially CT scan it and then clean it up in CAD, then CNC that.

Downside....hellishly expensive. We do that at work for industry clients and it's on the order of multiple thousands of dollars given just how much post processing labor is involved.

You could also bandsaw both mouthpieces of interest in half to trace the axially-symmetric profile, then trace that onto paper (or, xerox it), scan that, then manipulate and merge the scans with photoshop, then CAD up a model, then CNC.

That's a ton of work IMO and won't be cheap at all.
peteedwards
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:43 am
Location: York County PA

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by peteedwards »

A machine shop with a CMM could scan it for a reasonable fee.
They could also use a manual lathe & dial indicator, but its a bit more laborious.
You could also use a graduated series of steel balls & measure the depth of each.
LIBrassCo
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:34 am
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by LIBrassCo »

cozzagiorgi wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:58 am You could also try Antonio Rappacciuolo at AR Resonance in Italy.
He will do it
Check out our new bass trombone doubling mouthpieces: https://www.librassco.com/broadway-bass
timothy42b
Posts: 1467
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am
Location: central Virginia

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by timothy42b »

harrisonreed wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:18 am Is there a way to cast a mouthpiece without damaging it so you could graph a cross section?
Personally I would scan it.

But rifle competitors use something called Cerrosafe to cast in chambers to get accurate dimensions.
User avatar
JohnL
Posts: 1563
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:01 am
Contact:

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by JohnL »

I think the start of the art for digitizing mouthpieces is still a coordinate-measuring machine. Not sure if optical scanning technology is quite "there" yet; if not, it probably will be soon.

CMM's have their limitations - mostly having to do with the size of the probe, but getting into tight spaces (backbores, for example) is also problematic. If laser scanning can eliminate those issues...
User avatar
LeTromboniste
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:22 am
Location: Sion, CH

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by LeTromboniste »

harrisonreed wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:18 am Is there a way to cast a mouthpiece without damaging it so you could graph a cross section?
Silicone compounds used by dentists to make negative imprints of patients' teeth (and then used to cast a plaster positive copy) are also commonly used by makers of reproductions of historical instruments. Making an imprint of the cup and rim would be fairly easy with that, and it most certainly won't do any damage to the mouthpiece. A separate imprint of the outer shape would be also easy to get. Gets a little bit more complicated for the backbore.

Not as precise as scanning of course.
Maximilien Brisson
www.maximilienbrisson.com
Lecturer for baroque trombone,
Hfk Bremen/University of the Arts Bremen
timothy42b
Posts: 1467
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am
Location: central Virginia

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by timothy42b »

CalgaryTbone
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 1:39 pm

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by CalgaryTbone »

Christan made a couple of mouthpieces for me that combined a larger rim on a smaller cup. He did a great job, but it did take a while for him to get to it with other projects on the go. He was really honest about that up front, so that's not a criticism at all - just an observation.

If you like the Bousfield cup, and not the rim, I would just get someone to make a copy of the rim you do like, and cut the Bousfield into a screw-rim cup. Cheaper and faster, and will let you know if that combination works well together. John Stork did something like that for me many years ago, and did a really good job of copying the rim in question. The fit of the new rim to the cups that had sacrificed their rims to become underparts was great, and the price and turnaround time was very reasonable.

Jim Scott
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4489
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by harrisonreed »

CalgaryTbone wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:17 pm Christan made a couple of mouthpieces for me that combined a larger rim on a smaller cup. He did a great job, but it did take a while for him to get to it with other projects on the go. He was really honest about that up front, so that's not a criticism at all - just an observation.

If you like the Bousfield cup, and not the rim, I would just get someone to make a copy of the rim you do like, and cut the Bousfield into a screw-rim cup. Cheaper and faster, and will let you know if that combination works well together. John Stork did something like that for me many years ago, and did a really good job of copying the rim in question. The fit of the new rim to the cups that had sacrificed their rims to become underparts was great, and the price and turnaround time was very reasonable.

Jim Scott
Yeah, he (Christan) seems like a really busy guy. What was the upcharge, if you don't mind?

I think I'll call him up rather than email again.
CalgaryTbone
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 1:39 pm

Re: Custom CNC Mouthpiece Makers?

Post by CalgaryTbone »

PM sent.

Jim Scott
Post Reply

Return to “Mouthpieces”