Schilke 51- 4G.

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conn88Hagmann
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Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by conn88Hagmann » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:22 am

I want a Schilke 51 that’s as deep as a 4G.

So a 51D, with a 51Rim.

How do i get that?
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BGuttman
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by BGuttman » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:33 am

You can find a 51D if you look around. Maybe post a WTB in the Clasifieds. Popular Euph size.
Or you could get a Doug Eliot LT101G with an apropriate shank. Want it deeper still, try an H cup.
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JohnL
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by JohnL » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:48 am

BGuttman wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:33 am
You can find a 51D if you look around.
The 51D has a different rim than the rest of the 51 family.

You could probably order one from Schilke (not sure what the designation would be). Might take a while, though. You might want to see what Doug Elliott can do for you first.

You might also try a Hammond 12XL.
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by Burgerbob » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:07 am

The 51D is deeper than a 4G. A Hammond 12L is probably closer.
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conn88Hagmann
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by conn88Hagmann » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:21 am

I have a couple of 51D, but the rim on the 51 is slightly larger.

I have lots and lots of Doug’s stuff, and love it, but wonder if maybe one of the Schilke Symph models could work?

The 51D small we rim doesn’t work for me so well, and it’s a bit too deep.
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by LarryPrestonRoberson » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:19 am

conn88Hagmann wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:21 am
...wonder if maybe one of the Schilke Symph models could work?

The 51D small we rim doesn’t work for me so well, and it’s a bit too deep.
I own and have played the Schilke 51 and it’s derivatives and the 51D was my main trombone mouthpiece for years—still is on euphonium. I also own the Symphony M5.1 and D5.1 models. The rims feel much like the 51. I bought both, pre-owned, about 3 months ago to transition from the 51. The M5.1 appears to be a tweaked 51—altered throat and/or backbore possibly. It isn’t the best fit for me. The D5.1 apparently has the same specs as the M5.1 with a deeper cup. The D5.1 seems,to me, to be a hybrid of the 51 and 51D—a 51 rim on a slightly shallower cup than the 51D, with altered throat and/or backbore. For me it is a better fit than the M5.1. It still gives me the sound qualities of the 51D, which I like, but without the diffuse sound and muddy articulations. Of course it depends on the player. But it sounds like you may have had similar issues with the 51D. So, the Symphony Series might be worth a try—especially the D5.1.

So, to summarize:
Schilke 51 + tweaked backbore/throat = Schilke Symphony M5.1

Schilke 51 rim + slightly smaller 51D rim + tweaked backbore/throat = Schilke Symphony D5.1

These are my opinions not confirmed with Schilke. I’ve heard a rumor that Karl Hammond developed the Symphony Series before leaving Schilke to start his own company. Maybe someone here could confirm this and some of my other assertions/findings.

These sometimes come up for sale, used, here and on the various Facebook market groups.
Last edited by LarryPrestonRoberson on Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by imsevimse » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:53 am

Burgerbob wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:07 am
The 51D is deeper than a 4G. A Hammond 12L is probably closer.
The Hammond 11 is closer to a Bach 4G rim. If you want that rimsize and very deep you could try the Hammond 11L.

/Tom
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by Burgerbob » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:33 pm

imsevimse wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:53 am
Burgerbob wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:07 am
The 51D is deeper than a 4G. A Hammond 12L is probably closer.
The Hammond 11 is closer to a Bach 4G rim. If you want that rimsize and very deep you could try the Hammond 11L.

/Tom
Yes, but the poster is looking for a 5 rim.
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by conn88Hagmann » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:01 am

51 rim
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BGuttman
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by BGuttman » Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:21 am

Schilke 51 and Bach 5 are approximately the same size, with different shapes.
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by conn88Hagmann » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:13 pm

5G definitely feels smaller.

Rim is 25.5 and the 25.63 of the Schilke feels much larger.

The Elliot 101 is almost identical in feel for me .

5G is restrictive.
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by conn88Hagmann » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:33 pm

Any thoughts guys? Loving the 51 again, but would like a deeper versions
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by jcdoubleu77 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:36 pm

I used to love the Schilke 51D rim more than anything else, and way back when Osmun Music was located in Arlington, I had them cut the rim off a 51D and then cut up several other mouthpieces to create a variety of underparts for the 51D rim. It got to be expensive, but it worked.

So my advice: call around. Osmun likely still does this kind of work, but I'm sure there are other places too. Send them a Schilke 51 and a Bach 4G and ask them to create a screw rim combo out of it. If that combo doesn't work for you, send them a 51D to cut up and mate to your 51 rim. Rinse and repeat until you either find a combo that works or run out of money.
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by Doug Elliott » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:57 pm

Most 51's are considerably bigger in the rim than their spec size.
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Re: Schilke 51- 4G.

Post by conn88Hagmann » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:13 pm

Doug Elliott wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:57 pm
Most 51's are considerably bigger in the rim than their spec size.
I love your 101 rim. That’s been my go to for ages now. They are pretty close aren’t they?
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