Hammond 21BL vs 21BXL

[bassbone08]

I'm recently coming back to the horn after a 3 year break and changed a few components on my horn. My old Laskey 93D just wasn't working any more and I've been giving some of the mouthpieces in my stable another run, particularly my Hammond 21BL and Schilke 6.0D.

Both are working better for me. The Hammond 21BL has had the closest feel to my Laskey, but the cup does feel a little shallower than the 93D.

Just curious how the BXL compare to to the BL?

[SlideCrook]

Too deep and too wide of a throat for me. The ends of my notes were going anemic and dropping off in a way I wasn’t prepared to practice enough to overcome.

[Burgerbob]

Personally, I find the Hammond depths to be either side of Goldilocks. Too shallow and shouty for most things (BL), or just super duper deep and nigh unusable (BXL).

[bassbone08]

So how does it compare to a Schilke 60, depth wise?

[ZacharyThornton]

Personally, I find the Hammond depths to be either side of Goldilocks. Too shallow and shouty for most things (BL), or just super duper deep and nigh unusable (BXL).

Isn’t that what the BBL size is for? An in between?

[bassbone08]

I don't think there is a BBL for bass trombone. Not that I know of at least.

[Burgerbob]

Personally, I find the Hammond depths to be either side of Goldilocks. Too shallow and shouty for most things (BL), or just super duper deep and nigh unusable (BXL).

Isn’t that what the BBL size is for? An in between?

BLL, I think. Custom order only.

[ZacharyThornton]

Oh yeah BLL. I kinda want to try them. Spec wise, Karl’s mouthpieces seem like they wouldn’t work for me. But every time I play one, I am very impressed.

[tbonesullivan]

What are the rims like on the Hammond Bass mouthpieces? I like their tenor mouthpieces. Are they made using the same blank, or a wide blank? I don't get along with mouthpieces with thin rims like a Schilke 59/60 or Bach 1 1/4 G.

[Burgerbob]

Same blank.

[hornbuilder]

The BL and BXL have different cup shapes, as well as different depth.

The BL is a more "V" shape cup, whereas the BXL is a more "U" shaped cup.

The BLL has the "V" cup shape, but is deeper than the BL, but not as deep as the BXL.

I think the BLL works very, very well. There are also some shallower BXL versions out there that I would like to try at some point.

The Hammond rims are wider than standard Schilke rims. Even my 22BLL has a wider rim than a S60

[bassbone08]

My original question still remains. Hammond's description of the BXL as "this is a big boy" is not the clearest. Is it venturing towards contrabass depths, big compared to a Bach 1G or Schilke 60, etc.? What Hammond considers "very deep" may not be so compared to other pieces. I find the 21BL slightly shallower than the other piece I've played on the most, a 93D. I'm trying to decide if it's worth the time to try one out

The BL and BXL have different cup shapes, as well as different depth.

The BL is a more "V" shape cup, whereas the BXL is a more "U" shaped cup.

The BLL has the "V" cup shape, but is deeper than the BL, but not as deep as the BXL.

I think the BLL works very, very well. There are also some shallower BXL versions out there that I would like to try at some point.

The Hammond rims are wider than standard Schilke rims. Even my 22BLL has a wider rim than a S60

I don't find my 21BL having a V shaped cup, if anything it's very U shaped. Of course mine is from about 15 years ago which if memory serves is about the time he started his company. Not sure if his designs have changed over time.

The Hammond does a lot of things I like, plays very similar to my old Laskey. The high and mid range is much clearer than the Laskey. It's just the low end that is bothering me, little to compact sounding for my tastes.

[Burgerbob]

Hammond's pieces have very large throats. The BXL has a similar cup size to the Laskey (though not the same shape, IMO), but a much more open throat. To my face, it's not really a balanced setup. Be prepared to say goodbye to the high range and higher overtones for most players.

[hornbuilder]

My comment about "V" and "U" shaped cups is descriptive, not definitive. Once you see the shape of the BXL cup, you will understand the difference between them. The 21BXL is very much in the Schilke 60 arena, imo.

The only way to know if it works for you is to play one, and find out for yourself.

[hornbuilder]

The Laskey pieces have an even more "U" shaped than the BXL, verging on cylindrical in the top 1/2 (or so) of the cup.

[bassbone08]

The 21BXL is very much in the Schilke 60 arena, imo.

This is what I was looking for. Now I have a reference point to go from. Thanks.

[tbonesullivan]

Hammond's pieces have very large throats. The BXL has a similar cup size to the Laskey (though not the same shape, IMO), but a much more open throat. To my face, it's not really a balanced setup. Be prepared to say goodbye to the high range and higher overtones for most players.

Now, that is something I definitely have to look out for. I think for me, my favorite playing/ sounding bass piece is my Laskey 85MD. My Ferguson L is a close second. Both have not super huge throats.

[tbonesullivan]

Well, just a further note: I picked up a Hammond 20BL to compare with the other mouthpieces I use on a regular basis when playing bass trombone, a Laskey 85MD and a Ferguson Jeff Reynolds. It's definitely a different type of feel than either of those, with the larger throat and open backbore. I'm still getting used to it, but it definitely seems to make some soft passages speak easier, such as the Dvorak 9 2nd movement and Brahms Tragic Overture I'm playing now.

The rim is definitely not thin, and has a good amount of meat on it, with a fairly flat profile. The lip feel is quite similar to the Laskey 85MD actually, which looks to have a very similar rim diameter and profile.