Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

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NickHomes
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Location: Paris, France

Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by NickHomes »

Good morning everybody!
A perhaps absurd question for many. A few weeks ago I bought a 1941 Boosey & Hawkes tenor trombone (Artist's Perfected model) for not much money. As I am new to all this, I thought that a Bach small shank mouthpiece would be a good idea, but I find that it is too big... Measuring the diameter of the tube I see that it's approx. 11 mm (0.433 inches)... I would like to get some recommendations on what and where to buy a suitable mouthpiece for this very old trombone.
I'm sorry if the question is too absurd...
Best regards and thank you all!
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Doug Elliott
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Re: Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by Doug Elliott »

Not an absurd question, but I'm not familiar with that model. There are some British members here who may have better information. I would check a trumpet mouthpiece to see how far it goes in, and that would give me an indication of size. I would be able to make a shank that fits, for one of my trombone mouthpieces. Trumpet shanks and Eb alto horn shanks are almost the same and I suspect it's about that size.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
NickHomes
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:44 am
Location: Paris, France

Re: Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by NickHomes »

Dear Doug,
Thank you very much for your quick response. Oh, I hadn't thought of trying with an Eb horn mouthpiece... the truth is that the Eb horn ones look similar to the one that came with the trombone itself (which is very old). I will try, as you suggest, to get an Eb horn mouthpiece to try.
Thanks again! :)
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Doug Elliott
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Re: Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by Doug Elliott »

I'm not suggesting that you actually use an Eb horn mouthpiece, just that you try the shank size. And it really is almost the same as a trumpet shank, which is a lot easier to find or borrow.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
Vegasbound
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Re: Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by Vegasbound »

Stewbones is the expert on early British bones, the one you have is I believe .464 and they where supplied with a Kosicup mouthpiece, you see these on eBay or something similar to the Pryor mouthpiece should fit

An Eb tenor horn mouthpiece is not the answer
stewbones43
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Re: Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by stewbones43 »

Thanks for the promo, Vegasbound, much appreciated.

While I would agree with the bore size of 0.464in, I am not sure about the Kosicup mouthpiece being the right fit. All the Kosicups I have seen, and I have seen many! have been standard small bore fitting. I am not sure when they were first introduced but I suspect they arrived in the late 1940s/early 1950s when B&H/Besson started to make the more modern style instruments. (This is just conjecture, I have no factual knowledge on this and could easily be wrong!)

I have an old Gisborne trombone mouthpiece which has a smaller shank which I suspect would fit your trombone. Whereabouts are you, I may be able to help.

Cheers

Stewbones43
Conn 36H(Pitched in D/A)
B&H Sessionair
Besson 10-10
Conn 74H
Yamaha YSL-641 with Yamaha Custom Slide
Conn 88H Gen II with Conn SL4747 Slide
Besson Academy 409
Rath/Holton/Benge Bb/F/G or Gb/Eb or D Independent Bass
NickHomes
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Re: Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by NickHomes »

Hi!
Sorry for the delay in my reply and thank you all very much for your suggestions. I'm going to try some of the JK ones I've been told they have small shank.
Thanks again!
Vegasbound
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Re: Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by Vegasbound »

NickHomes wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:47 am Hi!
Sorry for the delay in my reply and thank you all very much for your suggestions. I'm going to try some of the JK ones I've been told they have small shank.
Thanks again!
The original mouthpieces where smaller and shallower than a 12c and is your imperial converted from high pitch?

FYI I asked my father what mouthpiece came with his imperial he received on his 18th birthday at the end of the 40s he said kosicup, but he said he had a conical mouthpiece that worked much better but couldn’t remember the make.
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heinzgries
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Re: Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by heinzgries »

You can get all JK trombone or german tenorhorn mouthpieces with a trumpet like shank.
Perhaps a small diameter tenorhorn mouthpiece will be fine
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stewbones43
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Re: Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by stewbones43 »

Having checked the JK site
https://www.jk-klier.de/en/mouthpieces/ ... -alto-horn
it seems that the mouthpieces are available in 3 sizes which I suspect are equivalent to standard small shank labelled as "Tenor", baritone size, which is probably equivalent to the old, pre 1974 British euphonium size and also known as European medium shank and bass trombone size which is probably the standard large bore shank. This seems to indicate that the JK mouthpieces are all too big for your trombone.
Further research has indicated that the Kosikup line was first introduced by Hawkes and sons, which means a date of before 1930 so an early Kosikup might fit your trombone. I have never seen a Hawkes and sons Kosikup, only the B&H versions which are the standard modern small shank, the same as your Bach or JK mouthpieces.
My offer of the smaller shanked Gisborne mouthpiece still stands. It is an old mouthpiece with some wear but it should fit your trombone.

What will it cost you? Postage from Somerset in the UK. The mouthpiece is FREE!

Cheers

Stewbones43
Conn 36H(Pitched in D/A)
B&H Sessionair
Besson 10-10
Conn 74H
Yamaha YSL-641 with Yamaha Custom Slide
Conn 88H Gen II with Conn SL4747 Slide
Besson Academy 409
Rath/Holton/Benge Bb/F/G or Gb/Eb or D Independent Bass
NickHomes
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:44 am
Location: Paris, France

Re: Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by NickHomes »

Hi!
Thank you very much heinzgries for posting the list! Wow Stewbones43 thank you so much for offering me this mouthpiece! I can see that it will be difficult to get things for this instrument in the future... Maybe I'll keep it with its original mouthpiece (I don't know if it will be Kosikup, but I can attach a picture) and I'll buy another one to continue studying.
You are all very kind""
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heinzgries
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Re: Mouthpiece for Boosey & Hawkes (1941)?

Post by heinzgries »

If you write to JK, he will make you every shank size you want. He had made me a small trombone mouthpiece with a trumpet size shank, which fit my Finke sackbut
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