TromboneChat

I have a new to me .508 horn (Shires) and the small shank mouthpieces I had for other horns are settling in for me like they did on the other horns. I'm looking at the Dennis Wick 6BS and thinking that might do the trick.

I'm bummed b/c I loaned out a Mt. Vernon 7 that seemed to work on any horn I put it with, but, I've not gotten the piece back and at my age forgot who I loaned it to . . . lessons learned.

I also am not fond of the Bach 6.5 AL, for whatever reason every other Bach size works for me, 4, 5, 7, 11, 12, 15, but not the 6.5, feels like trying to wear a shoe that's one size too small. So I'm looking for observations on the Wick 6BS from those of you who use it.

Cheers!

Ken

I found it way too deep!
After trying many other brands in this size, Bach, Griego, Wick, Monette, Marcinkiewicz etc.
The best mouthpiece I've found for a .508 bore is Doug Elliot's LTE/E3* combo I play it with an LT101 rim but the 6.5 equivalent is an LT100 rim.

Good mouthpiece, may be right for you or as with Fidbone may not be, also depends on what your using the horn for

Just so you know, the Wick 7CS has the same rim size as the 6BS, but has a shallower cup. That might be better (for some) on a .508 bore horn.

Jim Scott

I played a 6BS on a Shires .525 bore horn for a couple of years and recently moved on to something else. I liked the depth and throat size, it was easy to fill it up with air and was a good all around piece. However, I always felt like the cup diameter was a bit too small for my features. The other issue that many people have with Wicks is that the rims are universally flat with a 'sharp' rim. I grew up playing on Wicks so I didn't mind it too much, but I do like the softer rim I'm on now.

It kind of depends on what style you'll be using it for. Mine worked great in a pit orchestra. It can do most things well but as Jim suggested you may want to check out the 7CS instead. I used to play with a guy who paired one with his 3b and really liked it. I would also suggest the Marcinkiewicz 8H. Its a killer jazz piece that I think would work really well on a .508 horn.

Wow--thanks everybody! I should have said, that I do have a Wick 4BS that is just a little too limiting in the upper range. I play on a 4BL for my .547 horn and don't seem to have that issue. Weird.

Fidbone's Doug Elliot setup, a Wick 5BS, and the Marcinkiewicz 8 seem to have similar rim/inner cup diameters. Like slidefunk, a 6 size just feels wrong on my mouth (but I can play comfortably on just about every other size Bach), and the Wick 6BS I see has identical rim pecs to the Bach.

Looks like I'm moving away from the Wick 6.

I like the sound I get from the Wick 4BS, it's dark, but not too dark, and luscious. I've always loved JJs sound and he, to me, had a nice smooth, dark sound on a 3B. The 4BS just makes me work too hard in the upper range and defeats one of the reasons I picked up the .508 horn. The stock Back 7C, and my Mt. Vernon 12C, are just a little too bright and seem limiting in terms of my flexibility on the horn.

My hope for the horn was to have an instrument that facilitated big band and more improv study and improvement. The Marcinkiewicz looks intriguing to me.

I love Doug Elliot mouthpieces. He and I put together a custom package for my bass trombone when I was fortunate enough to visit him and get a lesson.

Then get Doug-to set you up on the right tenor piece for you

Yeah, get the C+/D3 combo with whatever rim you already have from him. It's DOPE. The best part about DE mouthpieces are that there are small shank ones!

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:33 am Yeah, get the C+/D3 combo with whatever rim you already have from him. It's DOPE. The best part about DE mouthpieces are that there are small shank ones!

Not only small shank, but Euro shank. So you can fit that 1920 Conn Bass with a proper sized mouthpiece.

slidefunk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:02 pm I would also suggest the Marcinkiewicz 8H. Its a killer jazz piece that I think would work really well on a .508 horn.

What does the 8H compare too for sake of context, or what would you say makes it work well on a .508? I'm intrigued.

I'm pretty comfortable on Wick pieces, been playing them since the 1980s. I love my Elliot bass set up, but I was prepared to spend the cash for the setup as that's my main horn. I double on tenor, so, something a little more stock is what I'm going for. Again, I love my Elliot bass MP, had a great lesson with Doug in his studio, he evaluated my playing and we swapped components to get the ideal setup. Top notch all the way.

It's supposed to be similar to a 6.5 AL (Bach).

Here's the data from the "horse's mouth."

https://www.marcinkiewicz.com/mouthpiec ... /standard/

But note that Marcinkiewicz measures his mouthpieces (especially inside cup diameters) differently than most other manufacturers, so their 8H (specified at 1.026 in. cup I.D.) is probably only slightly larger than a [typical] Bach 6½AL (specified at 1.00 in. I.D.). [The throat is also a bit larger: 0.266 in. vs 0.261 in.] Marcinkiewicz sizes are definitely more consistent than Bach's. To know more, you should play one. Marcinkiewicz makes excellent mouthpieces.

That would explain my experience with the 8H. I bought one thinking it was similar to my Bach 4G, but it really felt much smaller. I haven't figured out what size I'd use for my tenor, but the GR (used to be #2) worked great on my bass.

Not really part of this [Denis Wick thread, but here's what I've learned about Marcinkiewicz small tenor mouthpieces (from Internet snooping; validated by some personal experience):
Ian MacDougall ET 2: Cup ID: 25.37mm (0.999"); Throat: 5.79mm (0.228") - cf. N. Y. Bach 11C
C Loper ET 3: Cup ID: 25.12mm (0.989"); Throat: 6.25mm (0.246"); cf. Mt Vernon Bach 11C
Lloyd Ulyate ET 4: Cup ID: 25.12mm (0.989"); Throat: 6.25mm (0.246") - Copy of Lloyd's [opened-throat] Bach 7C!"
Marcinkiewicz 11: Cup ID: 25.40mm (1.000"); Throat: 5.94mm (0.234") - cf. Bach 11C? (but larger) - more like Bach 6½A (?)"
Bob Stroup 9B: Cup ID: 26.06mm (1.026"); Throat: 6.35mm (0.250") - cf. Bach 5

These are really fine mouthpieces! My favorite for small-bore tenor is the Lloyd Ulyate ET 4

Hmm, Marcinkiewicz 8H specs 1.026 inches inner cup diameter, which is 26.06 mm. Bach 4 and Wick 4 list 26mm rim diameter (not specified if same as "inner cup" diameter). Bach 6.5AL rim diameter lists at 25.4 mm.

Seems like the Marcinkiewicz 8H leans more towards a Bach/Wick 4 size rim with a different (6.5AL) cup depth?

This is why I posted here. I find the manufacturers' specs impenetrable. I'm hoping to continue hearing from folks' experience with these pieces.

As in my original post, the Bach 6.5AL rim just doesn't fit my big lips. So, I lean towards a 4 to 5 rim size for comfort/ease of playing. But I can't explain why a Bach 7, 11, 12, 14, and 15 are comfortable/playable. I have Mt.Vernon pieces in all these sizes and they all feel fine on my face. But not a 6.5. There's something about that 6.5 rim size that just goes "clang" on my face and they don't feel good.

Which makes the Marcinkiewicz 8H all the more intriguing. Might be one in my future.

CuriousKen wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:37 pm Hmm, Marcinkiewicz 8H specs 1.026 inches inner cup diameter, which is 26.06 mm. Bach 4 and Wick 4 list 26mm rim diameter (not specified if same as "inner cup" diameter). Bach 6.5AL rim diameter lists at 25.4 mm.

Seems like the Marcinkiewicz 8H leans more towards a Bach/Wick 4 size rim with a different (6.5AL) cup depth?

Marcinkiewicz 8H is NOT the size of a Bach 4. Much smaller. They measure their cups differently than Bach & Wick, as you can see by the previous comparisons I listed.

CuriousKen wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:49 pm What does the 8H compare too for sake of context, or what would you say makes it work well on a .508? I'm intrigued.

I spent some time earlier in the year trying out the Marc line at the shop in Oregon. The 8H jumped out at me immediately. Its very articulate, had an easy high range but still took a lot of air. At times almost too aggressive. It really wants to speak and be heard. Plenty of upper overtones, not the best low range. Easy to play. I wish I had a 3B to put it on. I think it makes a great funk/salsa player or as a lead in a big band because it projects so well.

CuriousKen wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:37 pm Hmm, Marcinkiewicz 8H specs 1.026 inches inner cup diameter, which is 26.06 mm. Bach 4 and Wick 4 list 26mm rim diameter (not specified if same as "inner cup" diameter). Bach 6.5AL rim diameter lists at 25.4 mm.

Seems like the Marcinkiewicz 8H leans more towards a Bach/Wick 4 size rim with a different (6.5AL) cup depth?

The cup diameter is close to a Wick 4, which is also why I liked it. Larger venturi than the Wick 6. The cup depth measures 26.59mm but its quite V shaped, so it loses volume as it gets deeper. I believe it sound brighter and 'smaller' than a typical 6.5.

Send an email to Graham at Marcinkiewicz. He's a great guy, a great tech and can answer any questions you might have about sizing and comparisons. I ended up buying the 8H and a 9B that Graham modified with an H size venturi for my tenor, and a CH1.5G for my bass.

Marcinkiewicz offers 2 week trials as well, if you want to try one out. Just have to put a credit card down and pay shipping.

Just get Doug Elliott to put together what you need!

Vegasbound wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:48 am Just get Doug Elliott to put together what you need!

Doug makes great mouthpieces (I use several sets of them), but you can buy 2 Marcinkiewicz mouthpieces for the cost of one Doug set. If you are just experimenting, buying more conventional mouthpieces would be a better way to go.

Plus, I found several 1-piece mouthpieces that work pretty well for me. Even Bach, Yamaha, and Schilke.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:31 pm

Vegasbound wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:48 am Just get Doug Elliott to put together what you need!

Doug makes great mouthpieces (I use several sets of them), but you can buy 2 Marcinkiewicz mouthpieces for the cost of one Doug set. If you are just experimenting, buying more conventional mouthpieces would be a better way to go.

Plus, I found several 1-piece mouthpieces that work pretty well for me. Even Bach, Yamaha, and Schilke.

Yes, I have a great Doug Elliot setup for my bass bone, which is my primary horn. The .508 is my third horn, so looking for something more off the shelf ideally.

Settled for now on the Marcinkiewicz 8H. It definitely feels bigger than a 6.5AL. The rim on my mouth feels comparable to my Wick 4bs small shank. Definitely not as deep, but deeper than the Bach 6.5. I like it, the cup depth does allow more air into the horn which helps me make a darker rounder sound than a stock 7c.

I still wish I hadn't loaned and lost my Mt. Vernon 7, but I'm working on replacing that. I'll be curious to see if that displaces the Marcinkiewicz.

I've been playing Wick since the mid-80s. At that point there weren't that many options besides Bach, Schilke, and Giardinelli and the Wick rim instantly felt better on my mouth. The Marcinkiewicz rim shape is different and I'm guessing a little sharper--I'm finding flexibility based slur work clearer and cleaner, which I really like. But it's not excessively sharp like my experience with a friend's Christian Lindberg mouthpiece.

I'm sure that Elliot setup that Fidbone mentioned is killer. I looked into it. And, like I've said, I really like my Elliot setup for my bass bone. But, my .508 is my 3rd horn in order of amount of time it's played and I just can't sink that level of resources into my 3rd call horn right now. Maybe later.

I've a Marcz 8H/ 6 1/2 AL and the rim measures right at 1.02" (25.9mm). Nice bite, narrowish rim (<.26"), D+ cup depth, with a narrow backbore behind the .266" throat. Weighs < 120g.