Wedge Mp's

Post Reply
PhillyG
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:47 am

Wedge Mp's

Post by PhillyG »

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has experience with these mp's.

PhillyG
User avatar
Geordie
Posts: 271
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:45 am
Location: UK

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by Geordie »

Had a 6.75 tenor piece. Made a positive impact and used for a couple of years. Helped develop range and endurance. Playing long soul band sets I found the rim contour/size uncomfortable. Limited access to a good low range was an issue I could live with for most gigs. Decided the characteristics I wanted if I was to replace it. Had a consult with Doug Elliot last summer and bought one of his set ups. My only regret is not doing it earlier. Having said that the Wedge was better than most of the small bore pieces I’d used over the years.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is not a rehearsal
walldaja
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:51 pm
Location: New Albany, Ohio

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by walldaja »

I've been a Wedge user on trumpet since 2008. Also used on flugelhorn, euphonium, and trombone. I still use the Wedge on my main trumpet and flugelhorn but have moved on with the other instruments. I was impressed by the gain in flexibility I got from using it--the design allows the corners to move. I think using the mouthpieces in all of my instruments has been useful in developing my embouchure but doesn't limit me to only using those products.

I've found across the board on my trombones that I like the Lindberg mpc much better--it gives me the sound I'm looking for. I don't play the euphonium much--not sure if it has been out of the case since COVID but have returned to a Stork. I picked up an old Blessing Standard and the Wedge I use in my Sonare just didn't give me what I wanted. For that old Blessing (which is a 0.470 bore) I use a Denis Wick and am pleased.

In hindsight, my experience with Wedge has helped me develop better technique.

One thing to consider is Wedge offers an incredible guarantee if you're not satisfied.
Dave

2014 Shires Q30GR with 2CL
1982 King 607F with 13CL
Yamaha 421G Bass with Christian Lindberg 2CL / Bach 1 1/2G
Bach Soloist with 13CL
1967 Olds Ambassador with 10CL
1957 Besson 10-10
Jean Baptiste EUPCOMS with Stork 4
2bobone
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by 2bobone »

I never felt SO comfortable with any mouthpiece so quickly. I had used my previous mouthpiece for over 20 years, but after an hour on a Wedge 1G [Delrin] I played a 4 hour Big Band gig the next night with great success. It facilitates flexibility and cleverly forces you to keep your corners firm. I'm a believer !
mattLockyer
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:21 pm

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by mattLockyer »

I use the 4G and it work really well for me. Honestly it feels prety normal on my faces and nowhere near as big as other 4Gs ive tryed.

IMO I would get one and use the 90 day trial or get a cheaper plastic one and try it out that way. There very good but worth trying for yourself
User avatar
LeTromboniste
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:22 am
Location: Sion, CH

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by LeTromboniste »

My impressions were that flexibility was insane, my corners were forced to always stay more active which helped with consistency and endurance, and the feeling of size was almost completely obscured. Because of the much smaller and lighter contact on the sides. My Wedge 6.5AL felt at the same time much bigger and much smaller than a normal 6.5AL. Weird but interesting feeling. A colleague tried my mouthpiece on his bass just to see what the feel on the lips was but he was amazed that he didn't find much a difference in the feel of his chops (coming from a 1 1/4-sized rim!).
Maximilien Brisson
www.maximilienbrisson.com
Lecturer for baroque trombone,
Hfk Bremen/University of the Arts Bremen
Bach5G
Posts: 2270
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:10 pm

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by Bach5G »

I went to Dr. D’s workshop in the forest on the island, with a roll of $20s fresh from the village ATM in my shorts. With Dr. D assisting, I tried a number of his mpcs. But Dr. D discouraged me from spending my money. Some people, he said were non-responders and I was one of them (although I had been before).

I have a Delrin Wedge rim around that I’ve never used
User avatar
Conn100HGuy
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:56 am
Location: York, PA
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by Conn100HGuy »

My Wedge journey began in November of 2009 with the purchase of a "wedged" Bach 6 1/2 AL. I had been playing a stock Bach 6 1/2 AL for about 5 years when I learned about the Wedge and the theory behind it. At this point in time, Dr. Dave wasn't producing his own blanks for trombone MPs which gave me a chance to evaluate only one variable, the modified rim, while keeping everything else exactly the same. I had absolutely no problem adapting to the Wedge. The advertised benefits - comfort, endurance and range - were immediate (and lasting).

A couple of years later, I did what many small-bore players do: I decided to try a smaller mouthpiece to see if it would extend my high range a bit further. So, I ordered a Wedge 12C. Coincidentally, I took lessons from a local band director who told me that I should actually go bigger! He loaned me a Bach 5GS which I immediately fell in love with.

When the Wedge 12C arrived, I unwrapped it, played for about 5 minutes and realized I had made a monumental mistake. Fortunately, Dr. Dave's return policy saved me. I exchanged the 12C for a Gen 1 Wedge 5GS which is still the only mouthpiece I use (I also have a Delrin 5GS as a backup).

All of my horns are small bore, by the way: Conn 100H (primary axe), Conn 44H Vocabell (for fun), Olds Ambassador (my first horn), and custom German-style trombone for the cool factor.

I love my Wedge and would highly recommend that you try one. Dr. Dave is great guy to work with.
Onward and Upward
chromebone
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by chromebone »

I liked the wedge, but worrying about lining it up exactly right every time I picked up pick up the horn was just more trouble than it was worth. It’s a great concept that works, but for me, putting the mouthpiece on the face consistently is fraught with enough peril that to add one more thing to be worried about wasn’t worth whatever gain it delivered to me.

But ymmv: If someone is not bothered by that, then it’s absolutely a great mouthpiece.
Reedman1
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:18 am

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by Reedman1 »

After a couple of false starts, I settled on a Wedge 101 Delrin (5G size) rim on a DE LT C+ cup and the related shank. I have adapted well to the set up. On my .508 horn, I get full range. I have plenty of flexibility, good tone, control; articulation takes a tiny bit of extra work. I find that this setup makes me more conscious of my lower lip and my corners. One thing against it - there’s a slight reduction in brightness. I do find it a bit fiddly when I’m using plunger, but that’s about it. I have sensitive upper incisors - enough to make playing trumpet painful. This mouthpiece helps keep me playing in reasonable comfort. One more note - if you get the Delrin rim, don’t drop it - it will break. So far, I haven’t dropped mine...
RustBeltBass
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:56 pm

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by RustBeltBass »

I don’t have experience playing these myself, but one of my colleagues plays them exclusively on all horns he plays and is extremely happy with them, having played Greg Black for many years before. If I remember correctly, he said that the biggest difference for him is a better endurance on the Wedge mouthpieces.
User avatar
Conn100HGuy
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:56 am
Location: York, PA
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by Conn100HGuy »

Added endurance is the common denominator for the vast majority of Wedge players. Many also experience more range (on both ends) and improved tone tone using the same "specs" as their conventional mps.
Onward and Upward
User avatar
Cotboneman
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:16 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by Cotboneman »

I bought a delrin 1.5G during the Covid lockdown period to experiment with, but it didn't do much for me. I likewise had to think about lining up the mouthpiece properly. Admittedly though I did not give it the workout that it deserved, and I still have it, so being honest, the jury is still out for me. My problem now is finding the practice time for it, since my trombone quartet and brass quintet are back to rehearsing weekly and the fall will bring a return to community orchestra season for me, with Shostakovich 5 and Dvorak 9 on the docket from the opening bell.
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by Matt K »

I actually think that part of the reason these work for those that it works for is that they may ideally be on narrower rims. The left/right side are narrow and the top/bottom are "normal" width. I'm evidently a "non-responder"; but I typically play narrow rims of a larger-than-average diameter for everything. I did have more success with his trumpet pieces and possibly would even still be playing them but I prefer brass bottoms and lexan tops and to do that back a few years ago would have cost a fortune. Unlike with his rims, the trumpet piece is so small that you have to cut something out of the cup too.
RustBeltBass
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:56 pm

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by RustBeltBass »

Matt K wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 10:53 am I actually think that part of the reason these work for those that it works for is that they may ideally be on narrower rims. The left/right side are narrow and the top/bottom are "normal" width. I'm evidently a "non-responder"; but I typically play narrow rims of a larger-than-average diameter for everything. I did have more success with his trumpet pieces and possibly would even still be playing them but I prefer brass bottoms and lexan tops and to do that back a few years ago would have cost a fortune. Unlike with his rims, the trumpet piece is so small that you have to cut something out of the cup too.
And what is a non-responder ?
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by Matt K »

Dave's term for people who don't find much or any benefit fro the unique rim shape his pieces have.
User avatar
MoominDave
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:23 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by MoominDave »

I've recently bought myself a second-hand Wedge 2G. Very interesting mouthpiece. In general with bass trombone mouthpieces, I like the crispness that a smaller horizontal aperture width forces onto the playing, but I dislike the increased difficulty in making the lower register consistent that goes hand in hand with that decreased size. Which is a pretty standard like/dislike trade-off pair for a bass trombonist, right?

The idea that an increased vertical freedom to the embouchure could enhance flexibility, while a smaller horizontal freedom could retain crispness is a very attractive one, and it does feel that this is what happens. A basic problem of bass trombone playing has another useful tool to use in seeking a solution to it.

Random observations so far:
- It's not as brilliant in tone through the dynamic range as some 2G designs, e.g. the classic VB. Is this down to an increased cup volume from the elliptic cross section?
- I tire differently using it to how I tire when on a circular rim of 2G size. It's more akin to how I tire when playing on a circular piece of a couple of sizes larger. All of a sudden, after an hour or two, focus becomes a big chore.
- In common with other posters upthread, flexibility is increased in a very attractive way. The ability to open the mouth vertically while it is supported horizontally allows notably more rapid and clean switching between registers.

This is definitely an experiment worth persevering with. I find myself wondering whether there might be further gains to be had for some players in tailoring the eccentricity of the ellipse.
Dave Taylor
(not to be confused with other Dave Taylors...)
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by Matt K »

I don't mean to offend, but are you using the guide dots correctly? Memory serving, the dots should be on top and bottom not sides. The way you describe it it sounds like you're using the portion of the rim with less material on the top/bottom rather than on the left/right.
User avatar
SwissTbone
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by SwissTbone »

Matt K wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:45 am I don't mean to offend, but are you using the guide dots correctly? Memory serving, the dots should be on top and bottom not sides. The way you describe it it sounds like you're using the portion of the rim with less material on the top/bottom rather than on the left/right.
Yep. You should get horizontal freedom. Not vertical freedom. To use your words.
ƒƒ---------------------------------------------------ƒƒ
Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4491
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by harrisonreed »

FWIW my colleague just switched to DE with the correct rim size (for him) after years of using an overly heavy wedge. His words were "no idea what I thought that was doing for me". For some, the wedge is a problem solver. Try everything and switch to what works best.
User avatar
MoominDave
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:23 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by MoominDave »

Matt K wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:45 am I don't mean to offend, but are you using the guide dots correctly? Memory serving, the dots should be on top and bottom not sides. The way you describe it it sounds like you're using the portion of the rim with less material on the top/bottom rather than on the left/right.
The guide dots are top/bottom, fear not :-)

"Increased vertical freedom" is absolutely the way I'd describe the (or at least an important) benefit I think I feel. From this embouchure's 'anchor' position against the top of the mouthpiece, I can with less resistance to the motion adjust the openness of my jaw (i.e. move vertically). That's a function both of the long axis being placed vertically and of the sides of the mouthpiece rim being moved a little forward from the face anchor position.
Dave Taylor
(not to be confused with other Dave Taylors...)
sungfw
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:15 am

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by sungfw »

MoominDave wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:00 am I find myself wondering whether there might be further gains to be had for some players in tailoring the eccentricity of the ellipse.
Matt K wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:45 am I don't mean to offend, but are you using the guide dots correctly? Memory serving, the dots should be on top and bottom not sides. The way you describe it it sounds like you're using the portion of the rim with less material on the top/bottom rather than on the left/right.
Well, that's the design intention, but when I trialed a Wedge back in 2009 (ultimately, I ended up sticking with my DE XT103-I), I "clocked" it out of curiosity, and found that, for me, the compensating, pedal, and altissimo ranges sounded fuller and clearer, and spoke more easily with the Wedge rotated 90° (dots oriented horizontally) from its proper orientation (dots oriented vertically).

FYI. FWIW. BTDT. OTOH, YMMV. HTH.
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by Matt K »

:lol:

Whatever works!

In both cases that does make sense. Although I do wonder the extent, similar to what Harrison said, to which someone who likes wedge designs would be better suited to a narrower rim, a bigger inner diameter, or perhaps both! Almost like the Wedge designs are a gateway to that direction.
User avatar
MoominDave
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:23 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by MoominDave »

Matt K wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:23 am :lol:

Whatever works!

In both cases that does make sense. Although I do wonder the extent, similar to what Harrison said, to which someone who likes wedge designs would be better suited to a narrower rim, a bigger inner diameter, or perhaps both! Almost like the Wedge designs are a gateway to that direction.
Among the pile of mouthpieces I've accumulated over the years, there's a group that I consistently favour more than others. The largest of these is a Marcinkiewicz EBT1 Bill Reichenbach model - narrow rim, big ID - the narrow rim I enjoy unreservedly. For a big mouthpiece, it does an unusually good job of keeping my sound focussed. But it can't defy practical acoustics - it serves me very well from the top of the dynamic range down to about mp, but succumbs inevitably to the problems that larger mouthpieces suffer below that - it becomes hard work to strive to retain as much as is wanted of colour, focus and clarity of articulation. In that it does much better than almost any other larger ID mouthpiece that I've tried, with many of which I've struggled to produce as much of these things as I desire at any dynamic below blastissimo. There is a place for larger IDs in my bass trombone mouthpiece world, but it isn't as my default.

So - not-large IDs are the way forward for me; this has been established over more than a decade of trial and error. Having grown up (one decade) on a rather strange VB 1-1/2G (narrow and deepish, kind of like a 2GM - it did some things very well, but didn't work with the trombone I moved to [for me, at that age]), then having transferred to an unusually focussed VB 1-1/4G (another decade), then having spent a third decade experimenting with all sizes but a particular focus around the 1-1/4 size band, I have found mouthpieces in all size bands that I enjoy and can use, but I did finally get around to trying more seriously to make the actual small stuff work - the two pieces I have in recent history been swapping between being a VB 2G and a VB 1-1/2G. To my surprise and pleasure, I've regained comfort on these rim sizes, and (less to my surprise, but definitely to my pleasure) the results are cleaner in articulation and have a natural colour and focus that works well.

But then we run into the small mouthpiece set of issues... I find it more hard than I like to get down into the lower register cleanly and in timely fashion, particularly when jumping. The trigger register change of resistance (two trombones in normal use, both Holtons - a TR181 and a 169 - so rotors of an old-fashioned type) is more severe unless one gets one's chops perfectly balanced for the individual instrument, and ditto for the pedal register. I'm happy working with these areas of challenge, but it would be nice if they weren't there.

And, lo and behold, they are certainly notably reduced with the Wedge 2G. The 2G width makes sure that you have small mouthpiece sound benefits, and the features aid with the classic small mouthpiece issues. It's a somewhat beefier sound than other 2Gs, but that's not the end of the world.

It might be a gateway for some players - everyone has their own individual journey. And if I don't stick with it forever, then it certainly will have been a gateway to whatever comes afterwards... But I've been to the place you prescribe, tried it extensively, enjoyed some portion of the results, and moved away from it.
Dave Taylor
(not to be confused with other Dave Taylors...)
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4491
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by harrisonreed »

I find that the dynamic impact you get from any mouthpiece comes down almost entirely to the throat and backbore, not the rim. Dynamic contrast all depends on the quality of the air you can feed into the system, loud or soft.

I'm basing this on the fact that I use the same rim/ID on every last mouthpiece I use, and the one with the largest throat plays both the loudest and softest, and it also takes less effort to move air through the system. The smaller throats take more effort and cannot be pushed to play loudly. They also are a more of a struggle to play pp.

Cup depth comes into play a bit as well. A shallower cup can be played very powerfully with a smaller throat and less effort. But you get a totally different sound. Somewhere there is a balance to be found.

Just my own insight and experience, for flavor.
Macbone1
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:17 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by Macbone1 »

I decided to try Wedge products by buying a silver-plated rim only, to fit my Doug Elliotts. Wedge prices are "up there" and this was an economical way to dip a toe in the water, besides the rim properties are of course the main selling point.
I found the entire rim a bit wider than I'm used to but grew to like it almost immediately. Very comfortable. It reminded me a bit of the natural urge to "press" when your chops start to tire, but the shape of the rim is already doing the "pressing" for you (even with light pressure) so it instinctively feels good. Articulations were unchanged and endurance was excellent. I'm a happy customer.
King Jiggs 2BL
Olds Opera
Besson Sovereign Bb/F bass
Holton bass trumpet
B&H Imperial shepherd's crook cornet
User avatar
MoominDave
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:23 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by MoominDave »

harrisonreed wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:44 am I find that the dynamic impact you get from any mouthpiece comes down almost entirely to the throat and backbore, not the rim. Dynamic contrast all depends on the quality of the air you can feed into the system, loud or soft.

I'm basing this on the fact that I use the same rim/ID on every last mouthpiece I use, and the one with the largest throat plays both the loudest and softest, and it also takes less effort to move air through the system. The smaller throats take more effort and cannot be pushed to play loudly. They also are a more of a struggle to play pp.

Cup depth comes into play a bit as well. A shallower cup can be played very powerfully with a smaller throat and less effort. But you get a totally different sound. Somewhere there is a balance to be found.

Just my own insight and experience, for flavor.
I wasn't talking about access to dynamics, but rather the sound made when you're playing at those particular dynamic levels. The two attributes have some correlation, but to me are very different considerations.
Dave Taylor
(not to be confused with other Dave Taylors...)
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4491
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Wedge Mp's

Post by harrisonreed »

Gotcha. Blatty vs stuffy vs laser beam, etc. I think I know what you mean.
Post Reply

Return to “Mouthpieces”