Bach 2G style. Rath B2 vs Symington #2.

[JimR]

Does anyone have experience with these two? Thoughts. For an old a 72h. Recommendations?

CheerS
Jim

[Posaunus]

For an old 72H you really need a "Remington shank" mouthpiece.
Conn Connstellation 3B is ideal – made for these trombones.

[Rusty]

I have both, they’re both play with a dark sound and sound bigger and more powerful than you’d expect.

The Rath has a very open backbore and more of a C shaped cup, whereas I preferred the more funnel shaped cup of the Symington 2 and more resistance for a beautiful mellow sound. The Rath rim bit in more to my lips whereas I found the Symington to be very comfy.

If you’re used to a more open blow and feel you may prefer the openness of the Rath, but the Symington is still open and sound wise it just sounds great!

For an old 72h I’d go the Symington 2 all the way! Check the shank though, if you have a Remington receiver then it might not sit as well as you’d like. In that case I’d recommend looking at a Doug Elliot piece with a Conn shank.

[SteveFoote]

If you really want a Bach 2G with a Remington shank go to Mouthpiece Express and search for Remington. I found the 2G to be too small. If you are searching for the right size, you would probably be better off going to Doug.

[Posaunus]

Check the shank though, if you have a Remington receiver then it might not sit as well as you’d like. In that case I’d recommend looking at a Doug Elliot piece with a Conn shank.

Ideally, you need the mouthpiece shank to match the Conn receiver. Doug's Conn shanks and mouthpieces are superb.

I was lucky enough to locate a Connstellation 3B (which might be too small for some bass trombonists ) as well as a Doug Elliott setup (MB J cup/MB 109 rim/J8_Conn shank) that works for both me and my old Conn bass trombone.

[Kevbach33]

For an old 72H you really need a "Remington shank" mouthpiece.
Conn Connstellation 3B is ideal – made for these trombones.

Don't forget that Conn also made a "normal" 3B (no gold plate, same outside shape as the large Remington tenor) mouthpiece for a period of time. These *might* be more readily available compared to the Connstellation equivalent.

Just a thought.

[Posaunus]

For an old 72H you really need a "Remington shank" mouthpiece.
Conn Connstellation 3B is ideal – made for these trombones.

Don't forget that Conn also made a "normal" 3B (no gold plate, same outside shape as the large Remington tenor) mouthpiece for a period of time. These *might* be more readily available compared to the Connstellation equivalent.

Just a thought.

True enough. I also have a Remington shank Schilke 58 (also too small for many bass trombonists, but not for me). And Marcinkiewicz has made some Remington shank bass trombone mouthpieces.

My point is that mouthpieces with shanks that fit the Conn receivers work better.

[FOSSIL]

Astonishing..... none of you seem aware that Symington can supply a Conn taper shank mouthpiece. Try to avoid offering false advice folks.
Both the Rath and the Symington were copied from MV Bach 2G pieces.... shows how much they varied. I would favour the Symington in a Conn...as long as the right shank is ordered. You have the option of Zirconium too.

Chris

[imsevimse]

The op question eas originally about Bach 2G style, Rath B2, vs Symington #2 but soon transferred to be about mouthpieces that fit a Remington leadpipe.
I want to add Karl Hammond to the list of mouthpiece makers who can make mouthpieces with the old Conn taper. I ordered several mouthpieces to fit my old Conn 88H and my Conn basses. I'm very satisfied.

/Tom

[FOSSIL]

So, original question...Rath v Symington....I was involved in the early stages of both mouthpieces, though only in as much as I gave feedback on each of them. I did try the Bach 2G that Rath copied and thought it was very nice indeed.... the resulting Rath is a direct copy of the rim and cup, but after that it follows Mick's house design specs. A nice blow, it is a little more free blowing than the original and slightly less complex tonally. Pretty round rim.
The Symington is a complete copy of a MV 2G belonging to a TC member. It's as good a copy as you can get and plays very much like a MV 2G. Bill has the ability to offer the Conn style shank as he also copied my early MV 1 1/2G Bach with Conn shank.
Just as an aside, many of the greatest bass trombone players here in the UK played (and many still play) regular shank Bach mouthpieces in Elkhart Conn trombones..... and it didn't seem to hold them back. Bob Hughes and Ray Premru come to mind from that older generation but there are many more who seemed not to suffer from mismatch issues.

Chris

[JimR]

Thanks all. I have a removed lead pipe and is not a Remington shank It is a Kanstul GR. Thanks for info to everyone and as always thanks Chris. Cheers all.

[btone]

Everything FOSSIL said is gospel; he knows Conns and Mt. Vernon bass pieces. From my experience, I bought a lot of different makes and vintages of 2G's to try before the Symington came out. I wish I had waited because Symington makes the best 2G on the market imho. It has a super comfortable rim, and is probably the most efficient mouthpiece I have ever played. It plays easy like a tenor, middle and high, and by having a tad deeper cup improves the low range over most other 2G's. Bill worked a treat with both his pieces.