Bach 22SC

[Mv2541]

There are a couple on Ebay right now but I'm not sure what it means. Does the SC stand for 'shallow cup'? Also where in the line would this fall? Shallower than a 22D?

[JohnL]

That rim looks pretty wide - kinda Rudy Mück-ish. As I recall, Rudy Mück worked for Bach during the NY era.

[Mv2541]

That rim looks pretty wide - kinda Rudy Mück-ish. As I recall, Rudy Mück worked for Bach during the NY era.

Could be right! I was thinking it's because they probably cut it from the same blank as all the rest and a small cup means more rim(?) But the rim shape does kinda look like a Rudy Muck shape.

[paulyg]

I just bought one, I'll let everyone know!

Hoping it will make a good alto piece.

[Mv2541]

I just bought one, I'll let everyone know!

Hoping it will make a good alto piece.

Definitely post how it compares in depth! Also if you end up not liking it let's talk-

[paulyg]

Well got my alto back from the shop today, so been playing the 22SC for a little bit.

My initial impressions are that my hypothesis stands- most people use alto mouthpieces that are WAYYYY too big for the instrument. This thing makes playing my alto feel about as comfortable as playing my tenor. There's more of a bell-front sound, as opposed to sound coming back in your face, which I anticipate helping with the perceived balance issues when playing alto (it always feels like you're dominating the rest of the section). Also, probably going to make it easier to hear the other trombones.

There's plenty of room in the slots, and definite feedback on the chops for where you sit in the slot. It's brought the pedal notes in tune with the partial above them, something that was iffy even with the NY 15A I was using prior.

The sound overall does tend to be slightly trumpet-y, definitely not as much room at the top of the dynamic range as a larger piece. However, for solo playing, and the high and soft stuff, I've not found anything that can touch this one. It makes alto playing a real pleasure- I can only imagine how great it would be on bass trumpet.

[Kdanielsen]

I just bought one, I'll let everyone know!

Hoping it will make a good alto piece.

Definitely post how it compares in depth! Also if you end up not liking it let's talk-

Ive got one for sale if you want it. Its either a MV or NY. I’ll check if you’re interested.

[Mv2541]

Definitely post how it compares in depth! Also if you end up not liking it let's talk-

Ive got one for sale if you want it. Its either a MV or NY. I’ll check if you’re interested.

Let's talk for sure! I'll shoot you an email in the morning-

[Mv2541]

Well got my alto back from the shop today, so been playing the 22SC for a little bit.

My initial impressions are that my hypothesis stands- most people use alto mouthpieces that are WAYYYY too big for the instrument. This thing makes playing my alto feel about as comfortable as playing my tenor. There's more of a bell-front sound, as opposed to sound coming back in your face, which I anticipate helping with the perceived balance issues when playing alto (it always feels like you're dominating the rest of the section). Also, probably going to make it easier to hear the other trombones.

There's plenty of room in the slots, and definite feedback on the chops for where you sit in the slot. It's brought the pedal notes in tune with the partial above them, something that was iffy even with the NY 15A I was using prior.

The sound overall does tend to be slightly trumpet-y, definitely not as much room at the top of the dynamic range as a larger piece. However, for solo playing, and the high and soft stuff, I've not found anything that can touch this one. It makes alto playing a real pleasure- I can only imagine how great it would be on bass trumpet.

Do I remember you saying you play a GB or Griego Alessi 1 rim on large tenor?? That is quite a transition to make lol. Many thanks for the review. What alto are you playing the new piece on? Seems like there is more variety of size and design among altos than tenor or bass so I am very curious. The 22SC sounds perfect for lighter stuff like Mozart et al.

This Griego 15 is far better than any other small piece (6 1/2-12) on the bass trumpet so far but the slotting up high is not great. Actually with a 6 1/2 ish piece with larger throat/bore (Bach AL or yammy 48) the feel and sound is much closer to a flugabone (which makes transitioning very easy compared to going for a real bass trumpet sound). A large part of it might be me but I wonder if the 22 will be the ticket on Bach/American-style bass trumpets.

[paulyg]

Alto is a Latszch model Kuhn. Not sure on the specs, feels big. I may drop by the shop again this week- they have a Bach NY bass trumpet, might see how it plays on that.

Yes, I play a GB Alessi 1 for most tenor stuff- just trying out a 3.5AL recently, I'll probably stick with it for a while until I need to level some structures again. I'm not super sensitive to rim size adjustments, as long as it's smaller than a rim I've put serious time in on. Also, it's easier for me to use a mouthpiece that really fits the horn, than it is to monkey around with my face to fit a mouthpiece to a horn.

[LeTromboniste]

Alto is a Latszch model Kuhn. Not sure on the specs, feels big. I may drop by the shop again this week- they have a Bach NY bass trumpet, might see how it plays on that.

That's the more German-style model isn't it? You might want to try to get your hands on German mouthpieces made particularly for that style of instruments (Schmidt makes good ones) to try it with. Those instruments never quite play to their full potential when using a mouthpiece designed for American-style instruments.

[Mv2541]

Well got my alto back from the shop today, so been playing the 22SC for a little bit.

My initial impressions are that my hypothesis stands- most people use alto mouthpieces that are WAYYYY too big for the instrument. This thing makes playing my alto feel about as comfortable as playing my tenor. There's more of a bell-front sound, as opposed to sound coming back in your face, which I anticipate helping with the perceived balance issues when playing alto (it always feels like you're dominating the rest of the section). Also, probably going to make it easier to hear the other trombones.

There's plenty of room in the slots, and definite feedback on the chops for where you sit in the slot. It's brought the pedal notes in tune with the partial above them, something that was iffy even with the NY 15A I was using prior.

The sound overall does tend to be slightly trumpet-y, definitely not as much room at the top of the dynamic range as a larger piece. However, for solo playing, and the high and soft stuff, I've not found anything that can touch this one. It makes alto playing a real pleasure- I can only imagine how great it would be on bass trumpet.

I just tried mine out today, and I can mostly agree with this stuff. Dynamic range isn't wide but it makes the upper partials feel more secure. It is really really small thought and I am not sure I'll be able to make it work. The sound is actually trumpety, more so than anything I have tried before. I am wondering if a 15E or D would have a similar sound with a more useable (for me) rim.

Also the rim is WIDE. If it wasn't in really good nick I might have the rim opened up to the .95-97 range.

[CheeseTray]

I used a 15D for a long time in the alto and thought it was both very comfortable and a good fit for the horn ( a Yamaha). Interestingly, I actually quit using it and moved to an 11C because I felt that I wasn't blending sufficiently well with the section (even though the Yamaha is a biggish alto)- This surprised me because my sound is quite a bit darker than average. In general, I think that tenor playing has been brightening back up a little over the last decade after the darker, darker, darker 90s-early-00s. Lately, I've thought about going back to the 15D because I liked the feel and maybe the blend will work better now days.

[Mv2541]

I can't make this rim work, so if anyone wants an excellent condition NY 22SC with gold rim and cup let me know.