Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

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Dsbones
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Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

Anyone have thoughts on what would work?
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by harrisonreed »

Large bore really isn't the right tool for the job. It's not fair to your section, and even if you're all by yourself in the brass section, probably not fair to the group.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by BGuttman »

Have you tried a Marcinkiewicz 8H? It seemed a lot more "zippy" than the Bach 6.5 AL to me.

What horn are you planning to pair it with?
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by MrHCinDE »

BGuttman wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:45 am Have you tried a Marcinkiewicz 8H? It seemed a lot more "zippy" than the Bach 6.5 AL to me.
I’d second that suggestion. With a lightweight nickel silver slide it’s my preferred combo for 1st trombone in a 10 to 12 piece brass group with varied repertoire. I wouldn’t choose to play it on 1st or 2nd in a big band but if the bass was on a big setup it could work, for my tastes, on 3rd.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Matt K »

The Shires 6.5AL copy is great. I had one threaded for DE rims but then ultimately switched when Doug came out with his new E8* shanks last year. It's shallower than I thought I would ever play, but if you get the right leadpipe setup, wow does it sing without being stuffy... which is often what I found with using such a small piece. The Yamaha Peter Sullivan is also in that ballpark.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Burgerbob »

Uh maybe the... Bach 6 1/2AL?
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Redthunder »

harrisonreed wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:43 am Large bore really isn't the right tool for the job. It's not fair to your section, and even if you're all by yourself in the brass section, probably not fair to the group.
“I’m not going to answer your question or contribute, just tell you that you’re wrong without ever hearing you play.”
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by tbonesullivan »

Burgerbob wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:08 am Uh maybe the... Bach 6 1/2AL?
With a large bore, might the 6 1/2A be better? The 6 1/2AL has the same throat as the small shank version, while the 6 1/2A large shank has a larger backbore.

The kanstul 6 1/2AL mouthpieces that came with my horns were like this as well.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Posaunus »

Dsbones wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:32 am Anyone have thoughts on what would work?
Can't give suggestions without additional information. Such as:
• What instrument do you play?
• What mouthpiece (s) do you play now?
• What other mouthpieces have you tried?
• What's wrong with your current setup?
• What is your "commercial" application?
• What music styles will you be playing?
• What's your budget?
• Any particular prejudices (pro or anti) with mouthpieces you have tried?
• Material preferences (silver-plated brass, gold-plated brass, stainless steel, titanium, polycarbonate, delrin, buffalo horn, ...)?
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Bach5G »

The usual answer is D Elliott.

Faxx makes a large shank 6 and 1/2 AL.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Doug Elliott »

It also depends on whether you're talking about rim size, cup depth, or both.

It's not just bore or backbore size that affects resistance and overall effectiveness.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

BGuttman wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:45 am Have you tried a Marcinkiewicz 8H? It seemed a lot more "zippy" than the Bach 6.5 AL to me.

What horn are you planning to pair it with?

Yes I have be of those. Used it awhile back but I couldn’t seem to agree with it. Might give it another try. I have a bit of a frankenbone really, but it’s essentially an 88h with a yellow brass shires bell flare. Really just asking to see what others play and get some ideas is all
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

tbonesullivan wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:51 am
Burgerbob wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:08 am Uh maybe the... Bach 6 1/2AL?
With a large bore, might the 6 1/2A be better? The 6 1/2AL has the same throat as the small shank version, while the 6 1/2A large shank has a larger backbore.

The kanstul 6 1/2AL mouthpieces that came with my horns were like this as well.

That seems interesting. I didn’t know Bach made a 6 1/2A. Might be worth looking into. I had also considered a HD in a similar 61/2 sizing
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

MrHCinDE wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:17 am
BGuttman wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:45 am Have you tried a Marcinkiewicz 8H? It seemed a lot more "zippy" than the Bach 6.5 AL to me.
I’d second that suggestion. With a lightweight nickel silver slide it’s my preferred combo for 1st trombone in a 10 to 12 piece brass group with varied repertoire. I wouldn’t choose to play it on 1st or 2nd in a big band but if the bass was on a big setup it could work, for my tastes, on 3rd.
Yes that’s one of the issue sometimes is fitting in with those around. I have one on the shelf I’ll dig out and try spending some more time with it. Picked up a standard Bach 5GL awhile back which feels great for more legit playing, but finding something with a bit more zip would be great when needed, as you said above👍
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Bach5G »

Dsbones wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:37 pm
tbonesullivan wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:51 am With a large bore, might the 6 1/2A be better? The 6 1/2AL has the same throat as the small shank version, while the 6 1/2A large shank has a larger backbore.

The kanstul 6 1/2AL mouthpieces that came with my horns were like this as well.

That seems interesting. I didn’t know Bach made a 6 1/2A. Might be worth looking into. I had also considered a HD in a similar 61/2 sizing
Also Bach 6 and 1/2AM. F/.257” throat
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by harrisonreed »

Redthunder wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:13 am
harrisonreed wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:43 am Large bore really isn't the right tool for the job. It's not fair to your section, and even if you're all by yourself in the brass section, probably not fair to the group.
“I’m not going to answer your question or contribute, just tell you that you’re wrong without ever hearing you play.”
Well before everyone gets all mad, I guess I'd ask why you want to play large bore on commercial music? The OP is asking for mouthpiece suggestions. That could be a long search if the root issue is just not using a small horn.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

harrisonreed wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:44 pm
Redthunder wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:13 am

“I’m not going to answer your question or contribute, just tell you that you’re wrong without ever hearing you play.”
Well before everyone gets all mad, I guess I'd ask why you want to play large bore on commercial music? The OP is asking for mouthpiece suggestions. That could be a long search if the root issue is just not using a small horn.

Perhaps it’s my fault and I should have worded my question better…..just curious If anyone had ideas or experience with this combination really. I play small and large tenor and bass and it seems sometime in some situations, not all, a large bore tenor would work very well.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Vegasbound »

Wick 6bl, Various Bach 61/2’s all work well with large bore, or really dial in what you want by chatting to Doug Elliott
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Slidennis »

My large bore Stork T2S (S = "symphonic" backbore) in heavy blank just rocks with my Abilene 88H... But a bit smaller in rim size than a 6 1/2...
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by BGuttman »

I'd like to point out that for years the standard mouthpiece supplied with Bach 42 trombones was the 6.5AL (although Bach dealers would allow you to swap for a different mouthpiece with your new instrument).
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by droffilcal »

Over the years I have had good results using a Laskey 54M with a Bach 42B, Conn 8H, and (currently) a King 4B-F; used this Laskey 54 + large bore in any number of commercial settings, mostly small groups, Latin stuff, and NOLA style brass bands. Also for orchestral pops gigs on Principal trombone.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Finetales »

Hammond 13M large shank, perhaps custom-ordered with a T4 backbore.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

Finetales wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:31 pm Hammond 13M large shank, perhaps custom-ordered with a T4 backbore.
Is that a more open or tighter backbore?
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by bassclef »

droffilcal wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:08 am Over the years I have had good results using a Laskey 54M with a Bach 42B, Conn 8H, and (currently) a King 4B-F; used this Laskey 54 + large bore in any number of commercial settings, mostly small groups, Latin stuff, and NOLA style brass bands. Also for orchestral pops gigs on Principal trombone.
I second the 54M recommendation. I've had experiences very similar to yours, mostly with a straight 70's 4B.

Although I have yet to try a large-shank version, I've recently been through a couple Greg Black 6.5AL's trying to get I suppose what could be described as some more "commercial" attack and sound characteristics out of it, a light-blank Futuro rim might work great on a large bore.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Finetales »

Dsbones wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:50 pm
Finetales wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:31 pm Hammond 13M large shank, perhaps custom-ordered with a T4 backbore.
Is that a more open or tighter backbore?
The large shank M-cup Hammonds come by default with the T5 backbore. According to Hammond: "This is the most open, and darkest backbore. I use this backbore to balance the large bore M so as not to be too aggressive or edgy."

The ML and L cup large shanks come with the T4 backbore, still very open.

Being as you want the piece for commercial stuff, aggressive/edgy might be a good thing so you could want the T4 backbore. If you decide to go the Hammond route, you could always send a message and ask about it.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Posaunus »

Noel,

Have you ever tried stainless steel? Giddings has several mouthpieces that might work for you. The ones that I know are all just a touch bigger than a 6½AL (perhaps closer to a 5G). These include their
• NB-101
• Euros
• Boreas

Another stainless steel outlier (but quite "commercial"): Loud LM52L (6½AL-sized).

My fallback large-bore mouthpiece is the Schilke 51 (or its "new and improved" version, the Schilke D5.1) - but perhaps a bit "symphonic" for your needs. Also Schilke 51C4.

An interesting option (though perhaps also "symphonic") might be one of the Griego / Bousfield mouthpieces, such as the Bousfield S5. Or the Griego 5M.

A touch smaller than a 6½AL, but perhaps with the sound you want: Stork Custom T1

Some players like the 6½-sized Yamaha "Alain Trudel"

Good luck with your search.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

bassclef wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:21 pm
droffilcal wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:08 am Over the years I have had good results using a Laskey 54M with a Bach 42B, Conn 8H, and (currently) a King 4B-F; used this Laskey 54 + large bore in any number of commercial settings, mostly small groups, Latin stuff, and NOLA style brass bands. Also for orchestral pops gigs on Principal trombone.
I second the 54M recommendation. I've had experiences very similar to yours, mostly with a straight 70's 4B.

Although I have yet to try a large-shank version, I've recently been through a couple Greg Black 6.5AL's trying to get I suppose what could be described as some more "commercial" attack and sound characteristics out of it, a light-blank Futuro rim might work great on a large bore.

👍👍
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

droffilcal wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:08 am Over the years I have had good results using a Laskey 54M with a Bach 42B, Conn 8H, and (currently) a King 4B-F; used this Laskey 54 + large bore in any number of commercial settings, mostly small groups, Latin stuff, and NOLA style brass bands. Also for orchestral pops gigs on Principal trombone.
👍👍
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

Finetales wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:32 pm
Dsbones wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:50 pm

Is that a more open or tighter backbore?
The large shank M-cup Hammonds come by default with the T5 backbore. According to Hammond: "This is the most open, and darkest backbore. I use this backbore to balance the large bore M so as not to be too aggressive or edgy."

The ML and L cup large shanks come with the T4 backbore, still very open.

Being as you want the piece for commercial stuff, aggressive/edgy might be a good thing so you could want the T4 backbore. If you decide to go the Hammond route, you could always send a message and ask about it.

👍👍
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

droffilcal wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:08 am Over the years I have had good results using a Laskey 54M with a Bach 42B, Conn 8H, and (currently) a King 4B-F; used this Laskey 54 + large bore in any number of commercial settings, mostly small groups, Latin stuff, and NOLA style brass bands. Also for orchestral pops gigs on Principal trombone.
I did not know laskey made a 54M in a large shank? Or do you use a small shank with MP sleeve?
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by droffilcal »

Laskey made large shank 54M
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by CheeseTray »

I would second the old Bousfield S5...very 'zippy,' but might be a bit tough to find at this point.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

CheeseTray wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:04 am I would second the old Bousfield S5...very 'zippy,' but might be a bit tough to find at this point.
The griego V5 or S5?……or are there differences at all?
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by LIBrassCo »

I do this size with a large shank option. 7c sized also.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Posaunus »

Dsbones wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:48 pm
CheeseTray wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:04 am I would second the old Bousfield S5...very 'zippy,' but might be a bit tough to find at this point.
The griego V5 or S5?……or are there differences at all?
S5.
They are different.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by harrisonreed »

5CL would be up your alley too.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by Dsbones »

LIBrassCo wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:16 am I do this size with a large shank option. 7c sized also.


Around the 6 1/2 and 7C?…..not wanting this setup for playing loud etc, basically just wanting something small with a clear upper register which still has a good dependable open low register.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by LIBrassCo »

Dsbones wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:50 pm
LIBrassCo wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:16 am I do this size with a large shank option. 7c sized also.


Around the 6 1/2 and 7C?…..not wanting this setup for playing loud etc, basically just wanting something small with a clear upper register which still has a good dependable open low register.
Yes. I mean, in reality if I'm doing a custom spec mouthpiece I'll put any set of specs together the player wants. So if the 6.5 rim size is the part that's essential, I'll design around it accordingly. Just did a tenor mouthpiece thats more or less a 4gish cup depth with a 2gish rim size for someone, and created a custom internal contour to optimize how those specs will work together. Same concept more or less (on the opposite end of the spectrum of course).
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by heldenbone »

All of these exotic options are nice, but if you get on well with a 5GL, you might consider a 5GS for a more lively sound. It has a shallower cup and smaller throat/backbore than the standard 5G.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by CheeseTray »

Posaunus wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:10 am
Dsbones wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:48 pm

The griego V5 or S5?……or are there differences at all?
S5.
They are different.
Posaunus is correct, not the Griego. I meant the older S5. It was one of three sizes produced: the S5, S4, and S - the S being the largest. They also had a little gimmick of providing small neoprene rings to place around the throat to change their feel (I never bothered with them). All three are very interesting and responsive mouthpieces and play unlike anything else of their comparable sizes on the market. They have relatively V-shaped cups compared to most mouthpieces.
I'm a large bore player and use the S5 as a '"cheater." I also really like the S4, which is similar in size to a Bach 4G or 5G.
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Re: Large bore 6 1/2 size commercial mouthpiece

Post by PaulT »

The Yamaha 51B could be just the ticket (and it will only cost you $50 to find out). The rim size and mouth-feel will be similar to a 6.5, but it has a shallower cup which will add a nice energy to the sound (lively and energetic, but not sharp or shrill). I love Yamaha's 51B, large shank/small shank both.
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