Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

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hntjr
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Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

Post by hntjr » Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:40 pm

I received a Conn 90G today. It has a Remington labeled mouthpiece with no model number listed. I also have a Conn 25i and use a Conn adapter with a Bach 6 1/2 AL. My Conn 25i came with a Conn Remington 5 mouthpiece. 

After cleaning the valves and mouthpiece,  I played the Conn 90G and found it a little awkward to hold and didn't have a very good playing response. So I put my Bach 6 1/2AL with the adapter into the receiver and it didn't fit at all, it was much too small. I put the Conn Remington 5 in and it also was too small. 

So what's going on? Did Remington have more than one standard size shaft? Is this analogous to Bach Small and Large shafts or was Remington different entirely? 

Thanks for your help.
Have a good day. 
Nelson 
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BGuttman
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Re: Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

Post by BGuttman » Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:09 pm

There is a small shank Remington that was supplied with Conn pro horns at one time. I had one for my Olds Ambassador with F and later traded it for a Connstellation Remington (it was a favor to the other player whose mouthpiece needed replating).

I'm not sure, but I believe the 90G takes a standard large shank mouthpiece, as opposed to the B&S taper Remington.
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mearldanner
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Re: Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

Post by mearldanner » Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:44 pm

According ro one internet seller. "Comes with Schilke 51 D huge shank mouthpiece" :D
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Burgerbob
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Re: Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

Post by Burgerbob » Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:48 pm

I'd try it with a normal large shank mouthpiece.
mrdeacon
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Re: Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

Post by mrdeacon » Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:11 pm

Burgerbob wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:48 pm
I'd try it with a normal large shank mouthpiece.
This. I've never played a 90G but most of the Conn Baritones did not use a Remington shank they just used a standard small or large shank. I would assume the 90G to be the same way.
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CalgaryTbone
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Re: Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

Post by CalgaryTbone » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:58 am

I remember playing one Conn Euphonium that had the medium sized shank, like an old Besson or Boosey. I don't think that is the case for those old 90G's, but I'll throw it out there. Try a standard large shank first - if that doesn't go in far enough to seat properly, then perhaps you need to try one of those Euphonium shanks.

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Re: Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

Post by Kevbach33 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:21 pm

CalgaryTbone wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:58 am
I remember playing one Conn Euphonium that had the medium sized shank, like an old Besson or Boosey. I don't think that is the case for those old 90G's, but I'll throw it out there. Try a standard large shank first - if that doesn't go in far enough to seat properly, then perhaps you need to try one of those Euphonium shanks.

Jim Scott
hntjr wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:40 pm
I put the Conn Remington 5 in and it also was too small.
That Conn 5 (NOT a Remington) is in fact a medium shank mouthpiece. There are Conn euphoniums with this shank size, and the 5 is meant to fit them.

But the 90G isn't one of those. That's why neither the 6 ½AL + adapter nor the Conn 5 fit the 90G.

What about that actual Remington mouthpiece? Is it swallowed by the receiver (thus being a small shank), or does it wobble? If the latter, that's your clue: the (large shank) Remington's Brown and Sharpe taper is slower than the Morse taper of most all other mouthpieces, and only the tip of the shank would touch the receiver.

If it doesn't wobble, then you've got the right shank.
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Re: Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

Post by CheeseTray » Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:15 pm

I own a 90G and I use my large shank Greg Black in it.
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flotrb
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Re: Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

Post by flotrb » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:54 pm

This is from the Conn Loyalist site
"It has a #4½ bore (0.547"). The 90G was produced between around 1970 and at least 1974. I gather that the 90G's bell section is that of an 8H pasted on to a euphonium valve section. Apparently the 90G was first developed for use by the Ohio State University Marching Band, who wanted something with a larger bore than the King Trombonium. OSUMB purchased 90G's around 1970. Same bell as the famous Conn 88H"

This is from the Horn Guys concerning Schilke-Remington mouthpieces:"... specially made for tenor and bass trombones having a large Remington shank style receiver. Examples of these trombones include Elkhart, Indiana production of the Conn 8H, 88H, 60H 62H, 70H-73H and others."

So, if you are playing a .547"bore, 88H bell, Conn instrument manufactured in Elkhart in the early '70's,I would lean toward "Remington shank".

The images below are from the C.G.Conn Product Manual, 1960 (regarding the 25i):

Image
Attachments
Conn 25i #2.JPG
Conn 25i #2.JPG (12.35 KiB) Viewed 1532 times
Conn 25i #1.5.JPG
Conn 25i #1.5.JPG (13.02 KiB) Viewed 1532 times
Conn 25i.JPG
Conn 25i.JPG (22.06 KiB) Viewed 1532 times
Доверяй, но проверяй
(Trust, but verify)
hntjr
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Re: Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

Post by hntjr » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:47 am

Sorry to be absent from my inquiry I posted. I have been very busy shingling my barn and my wife Charlotte had knee surgery so I have been doing doubly duty around the house as well as doing the shingling. Along the way I was able to pick up at Home Depot a necessary battery for my measuring calipers. I have a Bach Mouthpiece Manual. At the end, page 32, there are dimensions of Bach mouthpieces. In the opening page of the manual there is this "Vincent Bach was a rare combination of artist and engineer". With that in mind I wanted to use my calipers to do some measurements to help clarify what I was dealing with for myself and others:

end diameter 1" diameter
Bach 6 1/2 AL .4250 .4750
Conn 5 .4705 .5165
Conn Adapter .4660 .5125
Al Cass J1 .4365 .4755
Remington G90 .5120 .5395

From Bach Mouthpiece Manual

Model #350 Sm Shank .4220 .4750
Model #341 LG Shank .4960 .5460

Opening Receiver

Conn 25i .5105 1.0575 stop
Conn 90G .5400 no stop

Conn 5 length 3.3175
Bach 6 1/2 w/adapter 3.2725

So after looking at the data, the Remington mouthpiece that came with the Conn 90G looks very much like the dimensions of a Large shank mouthpiece. I was also curious about the Bach 6 1/2 AL using the Conn adapter vs the Conn 5 that came with my Conn 25i. I was wanting to know if there insertion was the same and would therefore give the same blow. There total length measurement was within .0450" using the Bach with adapter vs Conn 5. I was satisfied that was not enough to matter.

So I am going to order the Hickey adapter to bring my Al Cass and Bach 6 1/2 AL up to a large shank and see how that goes with my Conn 90G.

I appreciate all the feedback I have received. Have a good day. Nelson
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Re: Conn 90G Remington? Bach 6 1/2 w/Conn Adapter Need Help Please Read

Post by Doug Elliott » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:33 pm

Those numbers look pretty close to accurate
For the 90G I would use a little smaller than a standard large shank.
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