3B vs 3BSS

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:22 pm

Hey all. I'm an idiot and bought a 3BSS for a good price. Yes, I already have a good 80s 3B.

I'll probably keep the one that is more useful in more situations.

So far, it seems like the SS is a little better overall... Different sound, more creamy... It seems to fill in more gaps? Articulations seem a little less harsh, a little less short, and notes connect more. Low range seems more stable and the high range is just a bit easier to slot.

My 80s horn is pretty light, which may contribute to those differences somewhat.

Anyone out there choose the non-sterling over the SS?

brtnats · Post by **brtnats** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:25 pm

Yes. That bell gets heavy on long gigs. All the sound in the world doesn’t help you if you’re too fatigued to play it.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:25 pm

Well, I typically play bass for longer periods! I also use a Neotech on the 3B regardless, since I use it at work.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:28 pm

Just watched your YouTube video on this. I had a 3B concert before acquiring my 3B/F SS. For me personally I like the way sterling bells play. I had a Bach 42 with a sterling plus bell that I wish I never sold.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:41 pm

3BFSS all the way

greenbean · Post by **greenbean** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:11 pm

My SS 3BF is the best 3B I have played. Love it!

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:06 pm

Just for reference, this is a straight horn. I have a 36B for the F attachment!

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:49 pm

Bummer. Imagine if your 3BSS had an F attachment. The 36B(ummer) would be moot.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:07 am

3BSS all the way. For the reasons you list.

Weight difference is relatively insignificant, especially to a bass trombonist like you.

brtnats · Post by **brtnats** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:12 am

It wasn’t the weight, actually. It was the distribution of weight. Bell heavy horns just don’t sit well with me. I got tired of keeping the bell up.

TillE · Post by **TillE** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:01 am

HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:28 pm Just watched your YouTube video on this. I had a 3B concert before acquiring my 3B/F SS. For me personally I like the way sterling bells play. I had a Bach 42 with a sterling plus bell that I wish I never sold.

Got a link to the video?

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:28 am

brtnats wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:12 am It wasn’t the weight, actually. It was the distribution of weight. Bell heavy horns just don’t sit well with me. I got tired of keeping the bell up.

It's definitely only playable with a counterweight.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:29 am

TillE wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:01 am
HawaiiTromboneGuy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:28 pm Just watched your YouTube video on this. I had a 3B concert before acquiring my 3B/F SS. For me personally I like the way sterling bells play. I had a Bach 42 with a sterling plus bell that I wish I never sold.
Got a link to the video?

Pmed you the link.

jthomas105 · Post by **jthomas105** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:56 am

There's a reason Michael Davis played on a Super Sonic (2B) for 25+ years

bimmerman · Post by **bimmerman** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:13 am

Just saw your video--if its an option, keep both!

I bought a brass 2B with a great slide many years ago, then got a good deal on a same vintage 2B SS with an ehh slide. I've used both bells with the good slide depending on context and am quite happy.

Gun to my head, I'd keep the silver one. But it is nice having the bell option.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:50 am

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:49 pm Bummer. Imagine if your 3BSS had an F attachment. The 36B(ummer) would be moot.

You're not totally wrong... But I debated that for a bit when I got my 3B.

Finetales · Post by **Finetales** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:56 pm

I picked yellow (as you already know). When I bought my 3B it was but one in a room full of vintage 3Bs, some SS and some yellow. I tried them all and walked out with a yellow one. The 3BSSs were very nice but the yellow 3B had a sizzle and punch they didn't. It's exactly what I was looking for and is addicting to play. My yellow 3BF is the most versatile horn ever, and I feel like it would be less so if it was an SS. That's just me and how I play though.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:30 pm

That's exactly what I want to hear!

Also, you need to come play it.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:39 am

jthomas105 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:56 am There's a reason Michael Davis played on a Super Sonic (2B) for 25+ years

I know he mentions playing a ‘silver 2b’, but I believe he played a silver plated brass 2b rather than a silversonic.

His line of horns with Shires are very lightweight and are definitely more based on a brass horn rather than the weight of the SS.

CoralPolyps · Post by **CoralPolyps** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:59 am

I know I'm just parroting most everyone here, but I prefer the SS and I feel like I can get just a little bit more out of them than a brass bell.

brtnats · Post by **brtnats** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:10 am

@jthomas: I would say that a SS 2B is a completely different beast than a 3B

@Finetales: Exactly. I’m a nobody, but I gig a lot, and belting out choruses in Dixieland, ska, and Latin was a lot more difficult with a 3BSS. I attributed that to the front-heaviness, but you’re also totally right; the brass lights up faster. Not for everyone, but certainly helpful for me.

Fidbone · Post by **Fidbone** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:29 am

I like both however the Brass 3B is more versatile.
I've owned and played a few of both and the Brass version always won!
I still have and play my very first King 3B (1976) It's a great versatile horn.

Ask yourself, how many Pro name players do you know that play a SS 3B?

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:47 am

So if the brass 3B gets the better sound, why does the SS get all the love (and better resale value)?

Fidbone · Post by **Fidbone** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:49 am

Sterling Silver is more valuable and I guess it's easier to get a thick buttery sound out of........ Looks fancy too

I find the regular 3B easier to colour, easier to play lead on and generally easier to play and blend with other instruments!

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:16 am

I'm thinking I'll keep both bell sections for now. Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Thu May 02, 2019 10:29 pm

Finally used the Silversonic at work. Jesus. Yes, that is a keeper for sure. Made my life easier in every way.

Just sold the brass bell, incidentally... friend was looking for a 3B.

Think I'll look for a Bach 12 or something similar in the future for a better big band horn.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Thu May 02, 2019 11:37 pm

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:29 pm Think I'll look for a Bach 12 or something similar in the future for a better big band horn.

I love using a 3BSS for big band work - lead, 2nd or 3rd parts, all good!

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Thu May 02, 2019 11:43 pm

That's the plan for the future! If I can get away with it, I won't buy anything else.*

*famous last words

brtnats · Post by **brtnats** » Fri May 03, 2019 4:24 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 11:43 pm That's the plan for the future! If I can get away with it, I won't buy anything else.*

*famous last words

(6 months, tops)

Driswood · Post by **Driswood** » Tue May 07, 2019 7:34 am

Jimmy Pankow used a 3BSS for years. He now uses a Yamaha. I saw in an interview with Steve Wiest he uses the Yammy for live gigs since it's lighter, but still uses the 3B for recording because of the sound.

I guess if you jump around like he (still!) does, weight could be a factor.

Leanit · Post by **Leanit** » Tue May 07, 2019 9:14 pm

jthomas105 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:56 am There's a reason Michael Davis played on a Super Sonic (2B) for 25+ years

... but Tommy Dorsey didn't. I've always found the silver bells more work to sound good than their brass counterparts. In "let it rip" mode, the silver is great, but many find the brass to offer more flexibility at normal volumes.

If we all liked the same thing, there'd be quite a waiting list.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Tue May 07, 2019 10:38 pm

So, having used it and practiced it a bit...

The SS sounds "better" at all dynamics straight out of the gate. More even across the board, and more sound across the board for the energy level put in. I find that it stabilized the high (above F) and low (below low Bb) ranges for me, made them easier to lean on without getting out of the center of the horn.

It sounds better, but is less flexible in that regard- it kind of makes the same SS sound all the time. Playing louder just makes more sound.

For me, that's great. It responds very similarly to a large horn (in my case, a 42) but takes much less energy and still works with the other .508 horns in the section. I'm playing 3rd in this case, so I need to have some core to the sound in and below the staff, but need to play just like the rest in unison passages.

My brass horn is great- it has more color and changes much more when played loudly, which is definitely what some situations need. I really like how light and flexible it is. But, for the majority of my playing, the SS does the job and I don't need two 3Bs at the moment!

If I didn't have this job, I would probably keep both or even just the brass one (or have a different instrument altogether).

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Wed May 08, 2019 8:24 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:38 pm So, having used it and practiced it a bit...

The SS sounds "better" at all dynamics straight out of the gate. More even across the board, and more sound across the board for the energy level put in. I find that it stabilized the high (above F) and low (below low Bb) ranges for me, made them easier to lean on without getting out of the center of the horn.

I'm playing 3rd in this case, so I need to have some core to the sound in and below the staff, but need to play just like the rest in unison passages.

If I didn't have this job, I would probably keep both or even just the brass one (or have a different instrument altogether).

so...

1. Why wait? A 3BF or 3BSSF is most likely an even better tool for that job. That's what I use mine for. Or on lead. Not a lot gonna go on below the staff without that plug.

2. If you have a job, why not keep both? Getting rid of horns that work (or Theins, apparently) is what you do when you DON'T have a job.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Wed May 08, 2019 8:58 am

F attachment adds weight, and IMO the F attachment horns play just a little bit worse than the straight ones. I'm also a glutton for slide movement punishment

Fruitysloth · Post by **Fruitysloth** » Thu May 09, 2019 3:41 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 8:58 am F attachment adds weight, and IMO the F attachment horns play just a little bit worse than the straight ones. I'm also a glutton for slide movement punishment

I recently got to play both a 3B concert and 3BSS, both with F-attachments at the trombonanza in Spokane, WA a couple weeks back. I actually found the 3B/F concert to be the best playing 3B I’ve ever got my hands on, bar none. I’ve played a number of 3Bs, both brass and Silversonics, and none of them sounded as good, projecting, and responsive as this one. Your results may vary with the horns you’ve tried, just thought I’d add my own experience, I hope it has some use!

whitbey · Post by **whitbey** » Fri May 31, 2019 5:55 pm

I have a sterling silver Edwards. I love it. Wonderful color and smooth that holds up to any volume as sweet as it plays soft. Downside, it has no edge. Concert band and symphony setting directors want to hear a little edge to define the time. If the music requires that edge I bring yellow Edwards.

I have not played a King SS for years. The 3BSS is smaller and I think the smaller bell gives back the edge missing on the 547 horn. If you can play the hits with a crisp pop I would never let go of the sterling bell.

Can you pop and put an edge on your horn ok?

Jimkinkella · Post by **Jimkinkella** » Fri May 31, 2019 7:20 pm

The only 3b I’ve found that I really dug was a silver (not SS) 3bf from ‘76.
Shoulda never sold it.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Fri May 31, 2019 11:22 pm

whitbey wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 5:55 pm I have a sterling silver Edwards. I love it. Wonderful color and smooth that holds up to any volume as sweet as it plays soft. Downside, it has no edge. Concert band and symphony setting directors want to hear a little edge to define the time. If the music requires that edge I bring yellow Edwards.

I have not played a King SS for years. The 3BSS is smaller and I think the smaller bell gives back the edge missing on the 547 horn. If you can play the hits with a crisp pop I would never let go of the sterling bell.

Can you pop and put an edge on your horn ok?

I'm loving the horn. I can see how something larger would just be a one trick pony, soundwise... this horn really does have a spectrum. I used both the 3B and my "new" 36B at work today- I was surprised at how much difference there was in feedback and my sound. It's not that the 36 was that much more work, but it definitely didn't want to give me that same sharper front or color to the sound at the same dynamic.

However, I see myself needing a smaller, perhaps more versatile horn for a big band section, especially on lead. This horn would dominate in that setting! Not exactly the sound around here.

Just an excuse to go looking for a good Bach 12

Jimkinkella · Post by **Jimkinkella** » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:30 pm

That Jimmy Dell Bach 12 at the Brassark is pretty awesome, but if you want to play lead Bob McChesney's 8 for sale is even better...

greenbean · Post by **greenbean** » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:09 am

The fact of the matter is this: Almost every 3B and 3BSS in existence plays really well! There are few duds.

Sniffynose · Post by **Sniffynose** » Thu Feb 01, 2024 2:05 pm

I am playing my SBSS more than my regular 3B because it offers better flexibility and control when moving around from low to high, high to low range. I am however using the slide assembly from the regular 3B because the one that came with the SS has a stuffy leadpipe that I don’t like as much. Glad I have multiple horns to experiment with and swap parts! All my 3B’s sound great; the SS is just a bit of a different. Great for playing on loud gigs.

CuriousKen · Post by **CuriousKen** » Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:35 am

I play in two bands where the lead plays on a 2BSS and a 3BSS, both vintage. They sound amazing. The horn just takes as much as they put into it, doesn't break up, their sound just gets denser. I love hearing them play. FWIW, the gentleman--probably a member here--who plays in the Hadestown show on Broadway plays on a 2BSS. Same thing, guy sounds so powerful and dense. He's putting energy into the horn for sure--it never gives up, never wilts under all that energy, just keeps taking it and putting out. A dream horn for me for sure. Congrats--glad you like yours.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:39 am

CuriousKen wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:35 am FWIW, the gentleman--probably a member here--who plays in the Hadestown show on Broadway plays on a 2BSS. Same thing, guy sounds so powerful and dense. He's putting energy into the horn for sure--it never gives up, never wilts under all that energy, just keeps taking it and putting out.

I actually wanted to bring him up! I saw this show a couple days ago and you can hear that Silversonic sound just shoots through the ensemble in the best way.

ryebrye · Post by **ryebrye** » Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:38 am

CuriousKen wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:35 am I play in two bands where the lead plays on a 2BSS and a 3BSS, both vintage. They sound amazing. The horn just takes as much as they put into it, doesn't break up, their sound just gets denser. I love hearing them play. FWIW, the gentleman--probably a member here--who plays in the Hadestown show on Broadway plays on a 2BSS. Same thing, guy sounds so powerful and dense. He's putting energy into the horn for sure--it never gives up, never wilts under all that energy, just keeps taking it and putting out. A dream horn for me for sure. Congrats--glad you like yours.

It's amazing what a good sterling bell sounds like. The 2b and the 3b both sound great - especially when they are played loud.

I heard Christian Lindberg play recently (he plays on a sterling Conn 88h bell for those who aren't aware) - he could get LOUD. I haven't ever heard a brass bell played that loudly without breaking up (maybe it's possible, I've just not heard it)

imsevimse · Post by **imsevimse** » Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:25 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:22 pm Anyone out there choose the non-sterling over the SS?

I know It's an old resurected thread but still...
Yes, I prefer the brass 3B before the Sterling. I have three different 3B. One 3B with slide and also extra valve section, one 3B/F and one 3BSS. The straight 3B in brass is the one I prefer on lead in a big band so that's why because thats the part I play mostly , but they are all good. Good for different reasons

/Tom

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:36 am

Oops, didn't even realize this was my old thread.

I don't use an SS anymore, my kings are brass and I love em.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:36 am

ryebrye wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:38 am
CuriousKen wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:35 am I play in two bands where the lead plays on a 2BSS and a 3BSS, both vintage. They sound amazing. The horn just takes as much as they put into it, doesn't break up, their sound just gets denser. I love hearing them play. FWIW, the gentleman--probably a member here--who plays in the Hadestown show on Broadway plays on a 2BSS. Same thing, guy sounds so powerful and dense. He's putting energy into the horn for sure--it never gives up, never wilts under all that energy, just keeps taking it and putting out. A dream horn for me for sure. Congrats--glad you like yours.
It's amazing what a good sterling bell sounds like. The 2b and the 3b both sound great - especially when they are played loud.

I heard Christian Lindberg play recently (he plays on a sterling Conn 88h bell for those who aren't aware) - he could get LOUD. I haven't ever heard a brass bell played that loudly without breaking up (maybe it's possible, I've just not heard it)

Lindberg also wraps his bell with suede and uses a mouthpiece with a .307" throat. And is Christian Lindberg. Guy sounds like he is next to you even if he is playing off stage.

ryebrye · Post by **ryebrye** » Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:29 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:36 am Oops, didn't even realize this was my old thread.

I don't use an SS anymore, my kings are brass and I love em.

What made you decide to give up the SS?

Blending? Weight concerns? Brass matches your sound concept better?

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:50 am

ryebrye wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:29 am
Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:36 am Oops, didn't even realize this was my old thread.

I don't use an SS anymore, my kings are brass and I love em.
What made you decide to give up the SS?

Blending? Weight concerns? Brass matches your sound concept better?

I moved to a 3B/F due to need for the F attachment. The Silversonic versions are out there, but they command a premium and I realized that the brass one did everything I needed... And without any extra weight. I can also beat it up without worrying so much.