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Holton TR-181

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:06 am
by Backbone
Hello all!

I know that some out in trombone land have a negative view of the TR-181. But my question is that there must be those out there who like or even love it. I own one and I am actually learning to love it more and more. Most of the issues I heard about it - stuffy, heavy etc. - I have found to be either my fault or easily remedied.

Things I have done to mine include:

Pulled the lead pipe and put in a Kanstul 169 which I like way more that the C I had before - and I liked the C better than the original. This has made a tremendous difference for me.

Added screwbell so that I can take it on trips. While this was the purpose of this modification I found I like the sound and control better now.

Things I have planned:

Playing around with brace placement.

I use for wind symphony, concert band, and big band in a community setting.

So who out there actually likes or loves their 181? I know I do!

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:51 pm
by walldaja
Any company founded by a trombone player must have done some things right. That said, I've not seen any Holtons in play lately. There's got to be some out there!

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:41 pm
by hyperbolica
At the ATW last week I saw Max Seigel playing a modified 185. And doing a marvelous job with it.



I'm one of those who doesn't care for the 181, but other big Holton bones are really fantastic. I've owned a 181, 156, 159, and I'd love to own a 169, 180, 185.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:57 pm
by SwissTbone
No experience with the 181 on my side. But I had a 185 that was spectacular. I really regret that horn.

And a 169 would be one of my dream horns

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:16 pm
by Kingfan
I love my TR-180.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:29 pm
by Specialk3700
I have a stock 181. It's tricky beast. I love the sound but it sure does make you work to earn it. I think these are horns that become way better with some modifications.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:55 pm
by Backbone
Specialk3700 wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:29 pm I have a stock 181. It's tricky beast. I love the sound but it sure does make you work to earn it. I think these are horns that become way better with some modifications.
Definitely recommend a leadpipe change. Totally different beast! But I agree on the sound. Love it.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:15 pm
by Burgerbob
Just want to point out that the 181 and all previous designs are vastly different. The 169/185 especially are in a different league.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:12 pm
by Backbone
Burgerbob wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:15 pm Just want to point out that the 181 and all previous designs are vastly different. The 169/185 especially are in a different league.
Yes. Wish I could try one. Almost got a 185 bell section off Ebay but was outbid.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2024 12:45 pm
by PvtGoose
I played a TR-181 in high school jazz band and love the sound more than anything. I did have some issues with some of the stuff that comes with the age of the instrument, but has anyone found another bass trombone that has a similar sound. I love the warmth and depth that this instrument created and am trying to get one, or something similar to it.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:05 am
by Lastbone
I've tried maybe three 181s over the years, all solid players. I thought the thumb trigger might be repositioned.
That said, I played a 180 this evening.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:53 am
by WGWTR180
hyperbolica wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:41 pm At the ATW last week I saw Max Seigel playing a modified 185. And doing a marvelous job with it.



I'm one of those who doesn't care for the 181, but other big Holton bones are really fantastic. I've owned a 181, 156, 159, and I'd love to own a 169, 180, 185.
I sold Max that instrument. Not one of my better decisions, for me. but very happy Max played it. Not really modified unless you consider having the D slide made for the "birds nest " valve a modification. If I'm not mistaken his current M&W is wrap is based off of that design. Max is a wonderful player no matter what he plays on.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:28 am
by hyperbolica
WGWTR180 wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:53 am ... Max is a wonderful player no matter what he plays on.
Whenever I play bass, I'm always thinking about his sound and his sort of attitude on the horn. That conversational style.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:39 am
by WGWTR180
hyperbolica wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:28 am
WGWTR180 wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:53 am ... Max is a wonderful player no matter what he plays on.
Whenever I play bass, I'm always thinking about his sound and his sort of attitude on the horn. That conversational style.
I love the sound he gets on that Holton. I play Holtons myself.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:14 am
by tbonesullivan
WGWTR180 wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:39 amI love the sound he gets on that Holton. I play Holtons myself.
This is a statement that I love but also makes me sad, considering the fate of the Holton, Olds, King, Conn, and Reynolds bass trombone lines. With Kanstul gone there aren't many companies really looking into the alternatives to the Bach 50 type "Symphonic" trombone in the U.S.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:49 am
by ithinknot
WGWTR180 wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:39 am I love the sound he gets on that Holton. I play Holtons myself.
Me too, and me too
tbonesullivan wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:14 am With Kanstul gone there aren't many companies really looking into the alternatives to the Bach 50 type "Symphonic" trombone in the U.S.
Commercially, I know what you mean. As a question of design or manufacture, though, it's worth remembering that Holton basses fundamentally are NY Bachs, in terms of design origin and tapers.

Sure, the "house style" was different for materials and bell construction, but if you had M&W (or Greenhoe, etc) build a 2pc red bell on their 50-ish mandrel, and couple it with their 50-ish tuning slide and a wide 50-ish slide in the appropriate materials, what you'd end up with is legitimately Holton-ish to the same extent that one of their usual Bach-ish models could be considered Bach-ish.

Re: Holton TR-181

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:57 am
by WGWTR180
tbonesullivan wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:14 am
WGWTR180 wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:39 amI love the sound he gets on that Holton. I play Holtons myself.
This is a statement that I love but also makes me sad, considering the fate of the Holton, Olds, King, Conn, and Reynolds bass trombone lines. With Kanstul gone there aren't many companies really looking into the alternatives to the Bach 50 type "Symphonic" trombone in the U.S.
I get it. I've owned good ones and bad ones. Many gripes have been stuffy valves and/or lead pipe issues. At lot of them ended up in schools and are beat to s##t. To "modernize" a 185 that I own I sent it Matthew Walker and had him but a set of his valves on it. he did a masterful job and the horn plays SO CLOSE considering the valves are modern-and INLINE. Gives one the ability to turn something into something amazing.