Leadpipes? Do I have one?

[PaulT]

Not me, my trombone. I suppose it does, but what is it? What is a leadpipe.

I read that they are removable and that some swap them around for this or that reason. Yamaha small bores are even shipped with two different leadpipes allowing you to fine tune your tunes, one long, one short, your pick. What would I hear that would make me prefer one over the other? Are there general characteristics that are generally observable between longer and shorter?

I have a Yamaha 620 (.525 tenor). I suppose it has a leadpipe, but I don't see anything on that part of the horn that looks to be removable or pull outable. Does it have a fixed leadpipe? Or is there some way to pull it out? Is there any reason to ever pull it out (like cleaning?)

I'm not concerned, just curious.

[PaulT]

ok, I did find this: http://www.getzen.com/gazette/2006/10/0 ... o-for-you/

It answers most of my basic questions (I have one, it is soldered in, don't try pull it out, don't worry about it).

So my questions now would be something like, do most of you fellows experiment with different leadpipes or just play whatever came with the horn? Are horns with switchable leadpipes good for the player or just another layer of distracting choices that lead away from sticking with what you have and learning to make it work? Does the great variety of mouthpiece choices make leadpipe choices a redundancy?

Have I stumbled into a trombone forum minefield?

[Posaunus]

Have I stumbled into a trombone forum minefield?

YES

[harrisonreed]

Leadpipes are very important, but in general use the one that came in the horn, or is labeled "2"

[elmsandr]

Bigger than a minefield... kinda like an asteroid belt.

Some variables that can be adjusted in leadpipes (in no particular order):
Length
Rate of taper
Venturi diameter
Location of the Venturi (usually 1/2” after the mouthpiece)
Thickness
Material

So, almost none of these are documented along with the number... and all have a bit of variability so that even two labeled the same may not play the same. I was on a quest for a leadpipe for a while. I had to quit and just stick a good one in the horn and forget about it. I’m sure I could do better with another one, but the current one isn’t holding me back and there are just too many options for me.

Cheers,
Andy

[imsevimse]

New trombones often come with two or three leadpipes that can be removed and switched easily. Old horns have one leadpipe that is fixed and can not be removed as easy. On my new horns I tried the different options and found one that worked well and have not changed since. The old horns just have the leadpipe they came with with the exception of a New York Bach 6 model VII. The original leadpipe had cracked in several places. I noticed this because the horn did not play well. It was very diffuse and played very soft. It had no core to the sound. I bought a leadpipe from The Horn Guys and had a brass technician here remove the old leadpipe. The new one is interchangeable and if I ever find a replica of the original leadpipe it had I will buy one. The horn is very good, easy blow, wonderful sound but not quite a New York Bach 6 model VII without the original style leadpipe.

/Tom

[sirisobhakya]

The Yamaha YSL-620 is a .547” bore horn. The .525” one should be a YSL-640. Both has a fixed leadpipe, which is the reason you cannot see the thread or collar for a “removable/interchangeable” leadpipe on it.

Various aspects govern the feel and sound of a leadpipe, but normally removable pipes may be offered in 2 different parameters: openness and/or material. The effect of each parameter can be described in various ways, and it may be better you try them yourself. However, a horn with a fixed leadpipe generally has the leadpipe that has been optimized for it. You can “pull” the leadpipe, which means unsoldering it from the horn and make it removable/interchangeable. Whether that is a good idea or not depends.

There are people that change leadpipe according to what tunes they play, but there are also many people that find the one that is right for them and stick with it. For a horn with a fixed leadpipe, if you don’t really hate the sound or feel (mainly openness), or if you are not sure of what you want and cannot afford worse outcome, leave it like that may be a better idea.

[PaulT]

whoops

I have a 630.

[PaulT]

whoops

I have a 630.



Another reason I asked about leadpipes (besides not knowing anything about them) is that a band friend of mine has a Yamaha 891Z (.508), and we have been thinking about swapping horns for week or so just to experience a different horn.

(he has been curious about a slightly larger bore and I have been curious about a slightly smaller horn... (curiosity, not discontent)

((we both moved up from our old high school Conn Directors (.484?) earlier this year when we joined the town band. I hadn't played for thirty years, now I'm playing nearly every day))

Anyhoo, the 891 comes with two lead pipes, a longer one called the NY and a shorter one called the LA, and that is what got me thinking about leadpipes, something I didn't even know was part of the horn before.

I don't know if the 891 will sound appreciably different to me than my Conn Director, but I have been so impressed with how much richer and sweeter my 630 sounds, that I am left wondering if it is due to the larger bore or a better quality horn, or both, or neither. Nor do I know if the 891 will sound appreciably different to me than my 630 does.

(Nothing wrong with my Conn Director, but man, does that 630 sound full and sweet to me. Right off the bat it was, Wow! According to my ears, that is, but they are ones I have. Ears aren't like leadpipes

I have two playing interests.

- I play in a city band, mixed music, player friendly, sometimes 2nd, sometime 1st (we trade off).

- I love to play old Big Band tunes and easy jazz at home in my "music room". For example, I can noodle around with "Stormy Weather" and "Just a Closer Walk with Thee" happily for an hour.or so. Add in "Blue Skies" or a Beatles tune or two, and I am in there for a good chunk of the evening.

[sirisobhakya]

The “sweeter” sound can come from many things; larger bore, larger bell, bell material and thickness, of course leadpipe, and many other aspects. Is that always a good thing? Maybe not; in some circumstances such as lead playing in big band or contemporary music, a piercing sound is better to “cut through” the other amplified instruments. In a section which blending matters and other members are playing small bore, you also potentially have to play louder to match the timbre, and that may drown the other out and upset the balance.

However, in an average community band I doubt anyone would care much. If you like the sound, it is good. Also, the .525” bore size can be considered “middle of the road” and can easily adapt to many playing situation.

Anyway, if your friend are willing to swap horns with you, please try it. Trying out is always interesting.

[Matt K]

The 630 I've seen have a fixed leadpipe. So you'd have to modify it to remove it.