Wessex Instruments

[Bloo]

Anybody have experience with these guys? I'm interested in buying a few instruments from them. Specifically their marching trombone and their euphonium. I know they're one of those companies that import and then clean up their chinese-made instruments, but I've seen them get generally favorable reviews and I need some new stuff. Right now I'm playing on a horrid student-model Yamaha Euphonium, and I am without a marching trombone.

[BGuttman]

Good value for the money. Would I swap a Shires or Rath for one? Probably not. But the Shires or Rath will cost an awful lot more.

I'd certainly recommend the Marching Trombone since there is no such thing as a boutique quality instrument.

[sirisobhakya]

Their euphoniums are highly praised, especially the Dolce.

[TheSheriff]

Anybody have experience with these guys? I'm interested in buying a few instruments from them. Specifically their marching trombone and their euphonium. I know they're one of those companies that import and then clean up their chinese-made instruments, but I've seen them get generally favorable reviews and I need some new stuff. Right now I'm playing on a horrid student-model Yamaha Euphonium, and I am without a marching trombone.

======

I have one of their 3 valve Bb compensated baritone horns and I am very pleased with it. I've had it for a couple of years now and I've had no problems with it. I've heard very good things about their euphoniums.

I say go for it.

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[LeTromboniste]

My experience buying an instrument (ophicleide) from them is this (not all relevant for trombones specifically but perhaps representative of their company and products more generally) :

Pros

-horn sounds good and plays good

-actual copy of a good original 19th century instrument, contrary to other Chinese ophicleides that are merely ophicleide- shaped thingies. This is an important point for their trombones as well : they do a lot of R&D and design their own models. That is a big reason why some of their instruments are better (and better regarded) than other Chinese instruments.

-low price

-fast shipping


Cons

-craftsmanship is far from perfect. There were several defects on the instrument, things that Are not really acceptable on a brand new instrument (deteriorated pads, keyhole chimneys not perfectly round or level meaning the seal is not 100% perfect on some keys, tuning slide not parallel, one key that has cracks along the rod, etc). Those defects only affected the playability marginally, or in some cases (pads) didn't affect it now, but would mean maintenance work needed sooner than can and should be expected of a new instrument.

-while the communication with them was great leading up to the purchase, suddenly when the communication was about using their warranty to get some of those defects fixed, it was much harder to reach them. They did confirm the warranty would cover it, and they did eventually pay the bill for the repairs, but it took a few weeks after I sent them the bill and I had to nudge them a few times (they never responded to my sending of the bill or the nudges either, I just eventually got the money transfer after the second or third nudge)



All in all, good but not great. Their marketing claim that they are making professional level instrument at a fraction of the price is certainly not true, in my experience buying from them and trying other of their instruments. Fraction of the price, yes, good instruments, yes, at least some of their models are. But there is still some relation between what you pay for and what you get.

[ghmerrill]

This may interest readers of this thread: "Wessex Quality Improvements" (http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthread ... provements).

[harrisonreed]

Where the altos at?

[ghmerrill]

Well, Wessex started pretty much as a tuba/euphonium vendor -- at least that was the area of concentration. And it still is, except for some of the oddities it's developed along the way. The focus is still in that direction.

Also, if you read that announcement carefully, a number of questions spring to mind. Like: So, Wessex will now improve quality by introducing a line of more expensive high quality instruments. What does that really say about the focus on quality for the instruments prior to this introduction? And can we expect to see any increase in quality in that prior line of instruments (now regarded as "student" instruments even though they've been touted as attractive to professionals for some years)?

Can we, for example, in this now somewhat deprecated "Overture" student line of instruments, expect to see the elimination of such problems as poorly soldered braces, poorly cut threads, minor valve fabrication issues, and soft brass issues that have been reported fairly regularly? (Note: I just had another report of the valve cap threading problem from someone who within the past couple of months bought a Champion tuba such as I have -- and with the same valve cap problem I encountered several years ago.) If (as the announcement seems to suggest) the same people will be making/assembling the same (now "Overture") instruments in the same way with the same attention, then will there in fact be any change in the quality of those? Or is the quality improvement really just relegated to a higher cost line of instruments?

I'm still happy with the tuba I bought -- despite what I regard as relatively minor faults -- because of the price and overall performance of it (it's wonderful to play and the intonation and sound quality are excellent). I knew what I was getting and got what I wanted and expected. And I'd buy from Wessex again. But based on my own experience and the similar experience of others, I'm a little skeptical of the general claims about quality improvements being implemented -- especially in the case of the instruments that aren't part of the "high quality" line. Time will tell.

[norbie2018]

If I read the article correctly trombones will not be manufactured in the high quality department. Did I get that right?

[hyperbolica]

If I read the article correctly trombones will not be manufactured in the high quality department. Did I get that right?

He says later "This applies to all the low brass, so also euphonium, baritone and trombones. Most high-brass will become part of the Overture range, as Wessex is mainly a low brass company. " So it sounds like tubas, euphs, tbones will be made in both Overture and High-Quality models. Very good news for Wessex fans.

[norbie2018]

Thanks for the clarification.

[marccromme]

Their euphoniums are highly praised, especially the Dolce.

Yup. I have one, and it plays really nice. Mine is the first generation Dolce (without trigger) in silver plating. The silver is worn off where the right hand thumb touches the valves, but no other places. Intonation is very good in al ranges, and all valve combinations, except for 4+2 which is slightly too flat, but can be lipped up.

It's not a modern Yamaha or Sovereign, but it is massive value for the buck.

[whitbey]

This may interest readers of this thread: "Wessex Quality Improvements" (http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthread ... provements).

This is a very good read!

[Davidus1]

I own a couple of bones. (Bass Bone 7B copy and a .500 bore straight tenor) Decent instruments for the money. The rotary valves are not good on the Bass Trombone. I haven't played anything JinBao makes with rotary valves that I have liked. I own a model 200 tuba. (The model 200 is a Mack Brass, not Wessex) Love the way it plays but requires a lot of "upkeep" on the rotary valves for mediocre action. I own a Euphonium however that is great. Love it. I'd recommend Wessex over the other manufacturers but would purchase anything with a rotary valve with caution. Just my opinion.

[ghmerrill]

The rotary valves are not good on the Bass Trombone.

I wonder what you mean by this.

I have the Schiller version of that horn -- which should, by price and marketing hype, be even worse. And I have nothing (in terms of a trombone) to compare to, but my valves don't seem bad.

I confess that I've had them apart and mean to do that again when I get past this Christmas season since I think they can stand a bit more lapping in of the bearings/bushings. I'm sure they don't work with the "smooth authority" that my TR181 did, but it was so long ago I had that horn I can't really compare. And the linkage is nothing to write home about, but it works.

I find the Schiller to be perfectly functional and (with the lead pipe change I made) to sound very nice. I'm skeptical that the Wessex is worth $500 more (or even more at the time, I think) -- which is why I didn't buy it at the time. I ended up -- with the lead pipe change and some ergonomic changes I did myself -- a perfectly playable bass trombone for about $800. This is a bit less than the Mack Brass 830 clone, but I'd played one of those and didn't care for it so much -- and probably would had fussed with the lead pipe on that too.

So can you provide any more specific critique of the Wessex version?

[fwbassbone]

I've played both the Dolce euphonium and the new front valve euph. I liked both and plan to buy on after the first of the year. For the money nothing else compares.

[Bloo]

I've played both the Dolce euphonium and the new front valve euph. I liked both and plan to buy on after the first of the year. For the money nothing else compares.

Which one would you say you like better? I like the idea of the front facing valves, but the Dolce costs less and would be a better guarenteed "good euphonium".

I plan on buying a Euphonium and one of their Eb tubas in a few months.

[harrisonreed]

That's an Euphonium.



also "good euphonium" is a really funny term, if you stop and think about it.

[ghmerrill]

I really love my Eb Champion, but if I had it to do over would choose the model with the smaller bell. Which model you go for depends of course on what your intended use of it is, but I'm not convinced that for most purposes that 19" bell really gains you anything.

[fwbassbone]

"Which one would you say you like better? I like the idea of the front facing valves, but the Dolce costs less and would be a better guarenteed "good euphonium".

I've played both but not back to back. I liked both but the front valves seemed more comfortable to hold. I will either go up to Wessex and play them or hopefully they will bring both to their display and NABBA this year.

[JohnL]

That's an Euphonium.

Not according to Purdue University:

When "u" makes the same sound as the "y" in "you," or "o" makes the same sound as "w" in "won," then a is used. The word-initial "y" sound ("unicorn") is a glide [j] phonetically, which has consonantal properties; consequently, it is treated as a consonant, requiring "a."

a union
a united front
a unicorn
a used napkin
a U.S. ship
a one-legged man

https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writ ... us_an.html

The Oxford Dictionaries don't address the "eu" sound, but there is an entry on how to handle words that begin with a silent "h" (e.g., honor, hour, etc.):
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/usage ... oric-event

It's all about how the word is pronounced. If it begins with a vowel sound, it should be preceded by "an"; if it begins with a consonant sound, it should be preceded by "a".

[ghmerrill]

It's all about how the word is pronounced. If it begins with a vowel sound, it should be preceded by "an"; if it begins with a consonant sound, it should be preceded by "a".

Yup. But so often this gets shortened to the incorrect "If it begins with a vowel, it should be preceded by "an"; if it begins with a consonant, it should be preceded by "a". Don't know how many times I've heard that.

[harrisonreed]

No sense of humor, you fuddy dudds

as if the smilies didn't give a tip.

I was making a deep existentialist comment about the gravity of talking about an euphonium on thee trombone chat sight (it's about how it's pronounced, guys).

[Leisesturm]

Besides the obvious difference of the valve layout, the Festivo and Dolce are awfully similar. Except that the Dolce has a 12" bell diameter and the Festivo has an 11" bell. Should this bother me? I am really biased towards the Festivo despite the much higher price.

[JohnL]

No sense of humor, you fuddy dudds

as if the smilies didn't give a tip.
D
I was making a deep existentialist comment about the gravity of talking about an euphonium on thee trombone chat sight (it's about how it's pronounced, guys).

In that case, it's "an eew-phonium".

[ghmerrill]

Yes, it was definitely way to subtle for me.

[harrisonreed]

[hyperbolica]

I've owned 3 Wessex instruments - a Dolce euphonium that was probably 85% of a really perfect instrument, where the sound was probably not as efficient as it could have been. The second was a prototype double valve tenor, really a pro-level horn, as good as the best Bach I've ever handled. And the third was a Eb tuba, mechanically very good, tuning slides were possibly not what you would want them to be in a perfect horn. Valves (piston) were acceptable.

They do have problems stocking stuff, but instrument makers don't always have exactly what you want on the shelf. I've had to wait over 6 months for Kanstul and Shires.

[Davidus1]

The rotary valves are not good on the Bass Trombone.

I wonder what you mean by this.

I have the Schiller version of that horn -- which should, by price and marketing hype, be even worse. And I have nothing (in terms of a trombone) to compare to, but my valves don't seem bad.

I confess that I've had them apart and mean to do that again when I get past this Christmas season since I think they can stand a bit more lapping in of the bearings/bushings. I'm sure they don't work with the "smooth authority" that my TR181 did, but it was so long ago I had that horn I can't really compare. And the linkage is nothing to write home about, but it works.

I find the Schiller to be perfectly functional and (with the lead pipe change I made) to sound very nice. I'm skeptical that the Wessex is worth $500 more (or even more at the time, I think) -- which is why I didn't buy it at the time. I ended up -- with the lead pipe change and some ergonomic changes I did myself -- a perfectly playable bass trombone for about $800. This is a bit less than the Mack Brass 830 clone, but I'd played one of those and didn't care for it so much -- and probably would had fussed with the lead pipe on that too.

So can you provide any more specific critique of the Wessex version?

Specifically I find the rotors to be slower and quite frankly "sluggish" when compared to other horns that I have owned. Do they work? Yes, but are not as quick and snappy as other rotary valves that I have used. This is even more so on my tuba (Mack Brass, not Wessex) I like the horn but the valves are loud and require more "upkeep" than any rotary horn I've ever owned. I'm not bashing at all but I also will give my honest opinion when asked. I do like the way the horn plays but the rotary valves on JinBao products, in MY opinion, lag behind what European horns are producing. Not saying that they aren't improving but I believe there is still a large gap there. I own Wessex and Mack instruments and am overall happy with those purchases.

[Leisesturm]

Specifically I find the rotors to be slower and quite frankly "sluggish" when compared to other horns that I have owned. Do they work? Yes, but are not as quick and snappy as other rotary valves that I have used. This is even more so on my tuba (Mack Brass, not Wessex) I like the horn but the valves are loud and require more "upkeep" than any rotary horn I've ever owned. I'm not bashing at all but I also will give my honest opinion when asked. I do like the way the horn plays but the rotary valves on JinBao products, in MY opinion, lag behind what European horns are producing. Not saying that they aren't improving but I believe there is still a large gap there. I own Wessex and Mack instruments and am overall happy with those purchases.

I had a Jinbao rotary valve Euphonium (oval) back in the days when they were selling them direct on EBAY. Yah, the valves were maybe not as smooth as those on my Holton 602 French Horn but they were nicely tight, and the rest of the horn was very solid. It must be said, however, that many (most?) of us bought the European and American horns that we play from previous owners. Few of us know what brand new Holton valves feel like, and those of you who do are not likely to know what the valves on a brand new Wessex, Dillon, or Mack Brass stencil horn feel like. Given that the Chinese horns sell new for a fraction of what a Miraphone sells for well used ... I don't know, I think Chinese instruments should get more unqualified praise for what they are able to do and less 'honest criticism'. I would still have my Jinbao were it not for a flood that forced me out of my apartment.

[ghmerrill]

Specifically I find the rotors to be slower and quite frankly "sluggish" when compared to other horns that I have owned. Do they work? Yes, but are not as quick and snappy as other rotary valves that I have used.

Yeah, I get that and won't dispute it. But have you had them apart and tuned them up?

Often the problem with Chinese instruments (aside from gross quality control issues that are usually easy to spot) is the degree of "finish" in terms of the degree of polishing, remaining tool marks, etc. I've done a bit of that and got good results. And I think I'll do some more on the Schiller bass. The valve spindles are still quite tight in the bushings and would benefit from more aggressive lapping. Of course, if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, then paying a tech to do it might seem too expensive for a "cheap" instrument. On the other hand, it might not if the result is a much more usable horn. If you look on Tubenet, you'll see one or two places where Bloke describes doing that sort of "fine finishing" upgrade with significant results. His attitude has been that of course you have to take these horns apart and do the finishing that the Chinese factory didn't do.

Maybe you shouldn't have to have an expectation of buying a new instrument and doing that kind of work. But I DID have that expectation. Currently my rotors are at least as fast as I am. But I absolutely get where you're coming from, and the DIY or fixer-upper approach certainly isn't for everyone. In full disclosure, my wife claims that it doesn't matter what I get (tuba, trombone, euphonium, motorcycle, tractor, band saw, boat, ...), the first thing I do is to "fix it" before I use it. There's something to this observation.

[Davidus1]

Specifically I find the rotors to be slower and quite frankly "sluggish" when compared to other horns that I have owned. Do they work? Yes, but are not as quick and snappy as other rotary valves that I have used.

Yeah, I get that and won't dispute it. But have you had them apart and tuned them up?

Often the problem with Chinese instruments (aside from gross quality control issues that are usually easy to spot) is the degree of "finish" in terms of the degree of polishing, remaining tool marks, etc. I've done a bit of that and got good results. And I think I'll do some more on the Schiller bass. The valve spindles are still quite tight in the bushings and would benefit from more aggressive lapping. Of course, if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, then paying a tech to do it might seem too expensive for a "cheap" instrument. On the other hand, it might not if the result is a much more usable horn. If you look on Tubenet, you'll see one or two places where Bloke describes doing that sort of "fine finishing" upgrade with significant results. His attitude has been that of course you have to take these horns apart and do the finishing that the Chinese factory didn't do.

Maybe you shouldn't have to have an expectation of buying a new instrument and doing that kind of work. But I DID have that expectation. Currently my rotors are at least as fast as I am. But I absolutely get where you're coming from, and the DIY or fixer-upper approach certainly isn't for everyone. In full disclosure, my wife claims that it doesn't matter what I get (tuba, trombone, euphonium, motorcycle, tractor, band saw, boat, ...), the first thing I do is to "fix it" before I use it. There's something to this observation.

Great point! I did not have the expectation of having to do that amount of work. I also don't have the time to mess with it given my work schedule. I would still recommend these horns to others but would advise them of the issues so that they are aware. You make some great points and these could be tuned up as you say. Thanks!

[TubaMike]

I just purchased the BBb Helicon. Have only had it a few days and my schedule has not allowed me to spend the time with it that I wish I could. With that said, thus far it is a nice horn. Blows free and easy. Sounds great. Seems to be put together well. I was looking for something to fill the role of the sousaphone but not as stuffy and sounded better. It certainly meets that requirement for me. For the money I am pleased and I think I will really like the horn. An excellent value especially when you consider it also came with a hard case, a mouthpiece, extra valve springs and valve guides (you wouldn’t believe what Willson wants me to pay for valve guides for my Eb!). I will update again after spending a few weeks with the horn.

[Davidus1]

Specifically I find the rotors to be slower and quite frankly "sluggish" when compared to other horns that I have owned. Do they work? Yes, but are not as quick and snappy as other rotary valves that I have used. This is even more so on my tuba (Mack Brass, not Wessex) I like the horn but the valves are loud and require more "upkeep" than any rotary horn I've ever owned. I'm not bashing at all but I also will give my honest opinion when asked. I do like the way the horn plays but the rotary valves on JinBao products, in MY opinion, lag behind what European horns are producing. Not saying that they aren't improving but I believe there is still a large gap there. I own Wessex and Mack instruments and am overall happy with those purchases.

I had a Jinbao rotary valve Euphonium (oval) back in the days when they were selling them direct on EBAY. Yah, the valves were maybe not as smooth as those on my Holton 602 French Horn but they were nicely tight, and the rest of the horn was very solid. It must be said, however, that many (most?) of us bought the European and American horns that we play from previous owners. Few of us know what brand new Holton valves feel like, and those of you who do are not likely to know what the valves on a brand new Wessex, Dillon, or Mack Brass stencil horn feel like. Given that the Chinese horns sell new for a fraction of what a Miraphone sells for well used ... I don't know, I think Chinese instruments should get more unqualified praise for what they are able to do and less 'honest criticism'. I would still have my Jinbao were it not for a flood that forced me out of my apartment.

I'm giving praise but people need "honest criticism' if they want to make an informed decision. I'll decide what I want to post about an instrument. Take it or leave it....your choice. Its all information. I'm not portraying anything other than my experiences and my opinion. Having played professionally years ago my opinion is valid but others may have a different opinion. This is why these forums are a great source of info. I've played on brand new Miraphones, B&S and other quality instruments. If someone is expecting that same level of quality and finish they need to know that there is a gap. That gap is certainly manageable and worth it for a vast majority of players.