TromboneChat

Finally had the chance to use my 16 a couple times in real life. Loving the horn, so much easier to play and sounds so much better than my 6H.

However (and it could definitely be me), the high Bb and high C are flat. Those are not notes to expect to be low! They slot great and respond well, they're both just low in first position.

Anyone else had this same issue?

I'm playing it with a Bach 3 right now.

I have a 16M and have play others too and have had no problem with tuning in the upper range. A Bach 3 is (IMO)
way too big a mouthpiece for a horn tat size. I bet that is what`s giving you the issue

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:56 am Anyone else had this same issue?

The Bb is unusable in 1st position on 16M's. Something inherent in the design. Every other note on the 8th partial can be adjusted with the hand slide, of course, but you're out of luck for the Bb.

I hadn't noticed the C being an issue on mine.

Andrew

I'm glad it's a thing. I thought I remembered reading about that somewhere.

The 3 sounds big on paper, but it's smaller than a 6 1/2AL in all ways except rim diameter. Much smaller throat too.

Too big a cup (depth is less possibly, but volume is not. why not use a DE or Alessi 3A?), also, tune sharp so you can play in 1st. If B nat in 7th is still playable, your tbone is in tune.

I don't tune sharp on any of my other horns. I used to, but that was a few years back. Don't see a reason to start now.

I'm using the 3 because it was cheap and it sounds great, haven't found anything else remotely close!

Looks like I'll just get used to it in 3rd. No big deal.

Bb in first is in tune on my 16Ms, but the 3rd position is super hard to hit cleanly and consistently.

Something's funky IMO if it's flat in 1st. I use a 102 size DE piece without issue.

Some 16M's are strange and inconsistent. I think it's the oversized neckpipe that they switched to - the early ones didn't have that.
Some have an unusable Bb in 1st, others have an unusable Bb in 3rd. Hopefully there's one you can use somewhere...

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:58 pm Some 16M's are strange and inconsistent. I think it's the oversized neckpipe that they switched to - the early ones didn't have that.
Some have an unusable Bb in 1st, others have an unusable Bb in 3rd. Hopefully there's one you can use somewhere...

I had a 1983 16M. Had the open gooseneck.

Bb in 3rd was nonexistent. Wouldn't lock in. C was in 3rd, wouldn't slot consistently in 1st.

Only horn I've ever owned that I couldn't play Bb in 3rd.

I remember reading where Sam Burtis was talking about the small bore Bachs not having a Bb in 3rd. The 36 & 42 didn't have that problem, according to him.

TheBoneRanger wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:58 pm
The Bb is unusable in 1st position on 16M's. Something inherent in the design. Every other note on the 8th partial can be adjusted with the hand slide, of course, but you're out of luck for the Bb.

Rather a wild statement, I'd say. Been playing one 40 years since new and never had that issue.

I also have a 1983 16M. As stated above, the Bb in first position is in tune and rock solid. However, the Bb in 3rd is inconsistent at best. The Ab in 3rd seems to have taken up half the space of the Bb above because its almost impossible not to hit cleanly. After chipping the Bb in 3rd to many times on ballads, I gave up and got a Yammy 891Z - every note is perfect on this horn.