Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

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javcis31
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Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by javcis31 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:39 pm

Hello all!

I am currently a jazz studies student at a University and I just wanted some more insight/remarks/really anything about a new horn I picked up. I used to play an old King 2B liberty I purchased from a local music store, its quite old and definitely looks used to say the least. Recently, I went back and purchased a new Bach LT16M which I LOVED. I still love it and would never go back to the King.

This horn has the "16M" stamped on the slide while the bell is simply "16" Theres not much information online, but as far as I'm concerned, its an early 16M? Before they switched to the open gooseneck? I have nothing to compare it to so I'm not sure what I'm missing/gaining. The serial number indicates late '70s. It is in fine condition for its age I believe, please see the attached photos of the horn to see for yourself.

This horn has a very warm and tender tone and feels very flexible. It's a joy to play.

I appreciate all insight!
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Matt K
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Re: Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by Matt K » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:09 pm

I could be a fairly wide range of things including someone that just put a 16M slide on a 16 bell section. The newer bell sections I believe are different with respect to the neckpipe but there were times that this was not true. That's definitely some information we should put in the wiki since it's fairly convoluted how that all played out.
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javcis31
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Re: Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by javcis31 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:02 am

Sure, thanks for your insight!
pfrancis
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Re: Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by pfrancis » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:16 pm

TheBoneRanger
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Re: Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by TheBoneRanger » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:07 pm

You are correct. This is an early 16M.

If the bell is stamped "16M" it indicates the open gooseneck. I'm not exactly sure when the change was made.

Andrew (who plays a similar 16M...)
Cmillar
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Re: Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by Cmillar » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:51 pm

Is your slide a duo/bore slide? (the 16 slide)

I have a 16 slide (duo/bore, standard brass) and a 16M bell.

According to serial numbers, the horn is from the later '70's period of Bach.

I don't know exactly who owned it before I bought it as a used horn from Dillon's Music in New Jersey.

Great horn, which has been made even better by:
- getting the BrassArk 32H leadpipe to replace the stock leadpipe (they will make a pipe to fit the .495 upper slide)
- getting the original slide crook replaced with a 3B crook (my slide crook developed red rot and had to changed, so I took the recommendation to have a 3B crook installed.

The BrassArk 32H leadpipe just makes the horn and every mouthpiece really come to life. Lovely.

I thought I needed to shop for a new horn last year...but all I needed were a few horn improvements.

Give it some thought!
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javcis31
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Re: Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by javcis31 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:53 pm

Thanks! I have been considering getting the crook replaced with something more rounded. Have you noticed a radical difference with the new crook opposed to the older, square one? I'm not sure if its worth doing without having anything to compare it to. What are your thoughts and experiences?
Cmillar
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Re: Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by Cmillar » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:11 am

javcis31 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:53 pm
Thanks! I have been considering getting the crook replaced with something more rounded. Have you noticed a radical difference with the new crook opposed to the older, square one? I'm not sure if its worth doing without having anything to compare it to. What are your thoughts and experiences?
My first impression was that the 3B crook 'opened' up the horn a bit more...less stuffy, better high range, have to keep the air moving more, less 'resistance'.

I've had it a year now, so it's hard to really remember the 'old feeling'. But it's helped the horn very much.

But, the greatest change is the leadpipe. I wonder how the leadpipe would feel with the regular Bach crook....I don't know. But it's a great combination with the 3B crook.

My advice would be to email Noah Gladstone at BrassArk. He's a great guy, and will answer all your questions. They've most likely talked to someone with your questions before....like me!

Good luck.
Cmillar
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Re: Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by Cmillar » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:18 am

Oh yeah...nice thing about the 3B crook or the 32H leadpipe is that you keep the great 'Bach sound'....but it's then enhanced and adds more versatility to the horn.

I was ready to look for a new horn, as I just wasn't that pleased with the regular 16 slide and the stock leadpipe.

So I saved a lot of money this way. Spent a lot trying different mouthpieces, though. But I did hit on a great match for me and the horn.... the Bob Reeves/Brass Ark 11C.

Shoot me if I make any changes to my setup....I like it and need to practice now...not mess around with different things!
bimmerman
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Location: Menlo Park

Re: Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by bimmerman » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:34 am

I should try the 32H leadpipe. One of the guys I play with also has a 16M with the 3B crook (stock pipe), and he said he noticed zero change. I'm tempted to try the swap but...I think I'll ask to try his horn first.

Just to confirm the OP: I have two 16Ms-- the open gooseneck bell section is the 16M stamp while the first version of the horn (up to 80s or so) used a regular 16 bell with the 16M slide. I personally don't notice a huge difference in the blow between the bell sections.
TheBoneRanger
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Re: Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by TheBoneRanger » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:08 pm

I have a Shires 2.5 in mine. It runs rings around the stock pipe.

Andrew
Cmillar
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Re: Bach 16M w/ 16 Bell

Post by Cmillar » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:55 am

Cmillar wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:18 am

So I saved a lot of money this way. Spent a lot trying different mouthpieces, though.
Clarification:

- maybe the sign of a nice playing leadpipe in a decent horn is that it makes every mouthpiece I put in it makes me sound totally different from one to the other?

On horns that aren't so great, I always found that whatever mouthpiece I stick in it, I usually sound the same. The different mouthpieces would just affect how I felt as far as articulations, etc.

But now that I have the nice leadpipe in this Bach horn, I can really audition different mouthpieces....and see the strengths and weaknesses of each one (...and in me!)

Kind of a revelation. Every mouthpiece has a totally different sound quality when I use the 32H pipe. Very interesting.

....that might help or confuse the issue on what mouthpiece to use...it confuses me!.....good luck!
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