Looking for info on the BAC Trombone.

RJMason
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Re: Looking for info on the BAC Trombone.

Post by RJMason »

Elow wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:19 pm Surprising that they plated your bell section without asking, and put a yankees logo on the plate. Just to be clear, the only thing you asked for is the custom valve wrap, engraving, and satin finish? Did the copper half have a satin finish?
To be clear, I did not ask for a Yankees logo, a heavy tuning slide plate, or to copper plate the bell. The copper plate also had a dark antique lacquer applied to it. The before picture shows that it doesn’t really look “satin” at all. The slide tubes also were given that lacquer to give the illusion of what looks like a carbon slide. The lacquer was thick and according to my tech was very weak, hence the multiple coatings. It started wearing rather quickly, though this is more common on modern horns these days.

I fervently believe in BAC’s passion for creating wonderful horns for their customers and creating innovative designs that reflect the player’s personality. Regretfully, this design seemed to be more of a projection of what BAC “thought” I liked, and a cool photo op (red has never been my color and the horn is literally Kansas City Chiefs colors), instead of actually consulting with me. Not every project can be a bullseye, but my lesson is that players should be way more hands on if they desire a serious custom project like this.

And to answer Harrison’s question, yes I paid more money to a reputable tech to “correct” the instrument as best as possible. Remove the copper plate (but I kept it on the inside of the bell to save money and it looked unique), remove the lacquer, and the plate. The horn played much better, but the horn played better as a straight horn. I shouldn’t have messed with it, learned my lesson the hard way.

I have played half a dozen BAC trombones I really liked. One with a nickel bell I LOVED! And I’ve seen and believe in the talented staff employed there now. Many of those employees were not there when I started commissioning projects there. Sadly, I was not able to rely on their company to build me something that works. Doesn’t mean they won’t work for someone else though!

These are my own personal opinions and experiences. Don’t take them as an endorsement or repudiation. Everyone should make up their own minds. I’m grateful that I’m even in the position of playing trombone for a living and being able to afford projects like this. But I am sharing so others can possibly learn from my experiences and equip themselves with knowledge that aids in a fruitful collaboration with the company.
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tbonesullivan
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Re: Looking for info on the BAC Trombone.

Post by tbonesullivan »

What the heck? I'm just having trouble trying to imagine WHY someone, anyone, would copper plate a BRASS bell? And why only half? That just doesn't make ANY sense to me.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
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harrisonreed
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Re: Looking for info on the BAC Trombone.

Post by harrisonreed »

In my neck of the woods I am very conflicted over having a leadpipe pulled and fitted with a threaded adapter to accept other leadpipes, to try and get a horn to play better. The photos of both versions of RJMason's horns are pretty shocking to me, especially since he wasn't able to make choices that impacted the way the 3B played. That it played worse when he got it is like...

I think the first one looked kind of cool, steampunky, but HEAVY. I'm not a fan of the thin, curved bracing that you see so much in these custom horns -- it looks like the avant "garden" metal decorations you see in fancy gardens.

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tskeldon
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Re: Looking for info on the BAC Trombone.

Post by tskeldon »

Hi everyone,

I would never let anyone determine my aesthetics. What I am looking for from Mike and B.A.C. is the will, the courage, the confidence, and the skill to build, not decorate an instrument. So far, I've asked Mike a couple of challenging European 'build' questions (ones that I already know the answer for) and he has known the answer both times. He seems knowledgeable, keen, and positive; which is more than I can say for some of the other builders who want to sell me an assembly line product. I'm waiting to hear from De Carbo, but Mike has inspired optimism in me regarding my custom .490 slide build (brass/carbon with thumb operated water key). I'll let you know how things progress.

Tim
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harrisonreed
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Re: Looking for info on the BAC Trombone.

Post by harrisonreed »

Good luuuuuck!
HenryNewquist
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2022 8:49 am

Re: Looking for info on the BAC Trombone.

Post by HenryNewquist »

Just purchsed a Paseo W6 trombone. I've heard many good things about them and how they play very nicely and they look very nice. Very happy that it is made in the US, but I know some of their other trombones aren't made in the US. Being a smaller custom company, I don't blame them for having their cheaper horns being made overseas. Very excited about the W6, they play very well. As a Jazz player i've only played a King 2B and a Conn 6H. I love my 6H, but for me the BAC played better and I love the sound it gives. But if you're looking for something similar for cheaper I would recommend a 6H or a 3B. You can get a nice vintage one for half the price of a new W6. Overall BAC, makes really cool custom horns and I would recommend if you have the money and like them. A lot of it iss just my personal preference of what sound I want.
- Henry
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hyperbolica
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Re: Looking for info on the BAC Trombone.

Post by hyperbolica »

With this old thread reopened and the realization that things change over time...

I've had mixed experience with BAC. On one hand, some of their horns are insanely priced, and border on gaudy cake decorator type work. Some of the designs seem impractical and downright dangerous, with a lot of sharp metal points. Without knowing anything about how they play, I wouldn't get near some of these horns.

They do have some instruments I would like to play. The Eliot Mason signature (I guess this is the normal looking one, not the ridiculous one made from plate brass), but it sells for $1600 and is made in China. I almost got one used at a reasonable price. I wrote to them and asked a question on specs for this horn, and never heard back.

They get a lot of bad press about customer service, but I don't always put a lot of stock in these stories, since you tend to reap what you sow. Bad customers tend to have a lot of bad stories. For example, I've heard a lot of bad things about Irvin Karan, but I find him a good guy to deal with as long as you're reasonable.

On the other hand, I've bought a couple of horns from BAC on a very low-key ebay account where they have sold some really excellent vintage horns for under market value. These have been slightly modified 32h and a Courtois 402. These are horns I would buy again. Professionally packed and shipped with a minimum of hype and drama. This might just be the difference between who runs the repair/modification part of the business vs who runs the new instrument side.
jorymil
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Re: Looking for info on the BAC Trombone.

Post by jorymil »

I moved back to Kansas City right before COVID hit, and have consigned several horns with BAC Music, which is/was their retail/repair arm. It's been fantastic to be able to try out a horn or two, then have them list it if it doesn't work out. And they've been good about hanging onto horns until they sell. The market for a particular used horn is not very large, so their patience is a virtue.

I don't have the money for a custom horn, but have had slide repairs done and the F/G cut made to my 3b+f. Have always been happy with the work. I'm thinking about a plug-in valve for my Holton Tr-185 down the road, and will likely go there depending on availability.
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