Budget large trombones

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JLivi
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Budget large trombones

Post by JLivi » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:15 pm

I've been looking at cheaper large bore horns for a school I teach at. Does anyone have any experience with any or all of these horns. Our budget is around $400-800 and the lower the cost the better.

Holton TR158
Yamaha 448G
Benge 165f
Benge 190f

Are any of these pro horns? Is one better than the other? I tried a Yamaha 448 and thought it was decent. I didn't know if that was my best bet if I can find one in my price range. I also found a Holton TR158 at the low end of my price range, but know nothing about the horn.

Thanks!
peteedwards
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by peteedwards » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:26 pm

Benge 165 is not a large bore.
Of the other three, since we're talking about used horns a LOT more depends on condition of a particular sample.
fsgazda
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by fsgazda » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:34 pm

The Benge 165 is a large bore, .547 8 1/2 inch bell. It's similar to the Benge 190F, only with a closed wrap. The 175 is a medium bore horn.

The Holton and both Benges are pro horns. I have a 165F I keep in the studio as a loaner to students who are switching to large bore (so they can learn the blow and trigger before buying their own). I also have a student that I set up with a Benge 190. It is an excellent instrument. They play a little more Conn-like than Bach-like. I see 165s for $600 or under, depending on condition. I think that the 190 my student bought was around $650. Depending on condition, I think the Benges are great value for excellent horns.
Frank S. Gazda
Professor of Music, Delaware State University
Freelance Low Brass, Mid-Atlantic
www.firststatebrass.com
Posaunus
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by Posaunus » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:11 pm

fsgazda wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:34 pm
The Benge 165 is a large bore, (.547") 8½ inch bell. It's similar to the Benge 190F, only with a closed wrap. The 175 is a medium bore horn.

The Holton and both Benges are pro horns. [They Benges] play a little more Conn-like than Bach-like. Depending on condition, I think the Benges are great value for excellent horns.
I prefer these Benge 0.547" bore trombones to the Holton. If they have been properly maintained and cared for (or restored, since they have not been manufactured for many years), they are fine pro-level trombones. The Benge 165 is the closest thing to a Conn 88H for (typically) half the price, if you can find one. Some players prefer the (open-wrap) 190F; I'm happy with the (closed-wrap) 165.
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Kingfan
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by Kingfan » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:20 pm

Blessing B88s are also an option for a good larger bore that might be in your price range as they are often undervalued vs. their competition.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
marccromme
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by marccromme » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:39 pm

The Yamaha 448G plays well and very consistent. Good intonation. Pretty open valve register, and that with a normal rotary. Easy to play, and good response. A good horn for a school band.
LarryPrestonRoberson
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by LarryPrestonRoberson » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:33 pm

The Yamaha YSL-448G is definitely the common fleet horn for many schools. In particular, larger universities and colleges outfit the marching band with these—uniformity of appearance and sound. In Georgia, UGA and Georgia State (GSU) come to mind. Also, many of the GSU trombonists, who don’t have their own large bore/f-attachment tenors, rent them for concert and studio settings. They’re good, reliable, consistent trombones.
hyperbolica
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by hyperbolica » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:04 pm

The Holton and Benge are nice pro horns. You might add King 4/5b, Holton 150 and 159 might also suit your needs. I personally like the Holtons.
Davidus1
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by Davidus1 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:11 pm

Best wishes in your search. I don't think you have a bad choice with any of the suggestions made here. I would look for the horn in the best shape within your budget.
Conn Victor 5H
Yamaha YSL-630
Yamaha YSL-354
Miraphone 186 BBb
JLivi
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by JLivi » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:42 am

hyperbolica wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:04 pm
The Holton and Benge are nice pro horns. You might add King 4/5b, Holton 150 and 159 might also suit your needs. I personally like the Holtons.
What is the difference between the Holton 150, 158 and 159?
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BGuttman
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by BGuttman » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:54 am

TR-150 has thumb over bell brace actuation and 9" bel. Straight 0.547" slide. Crisafulli model.
TR-158 has yellow 9" bell and straight 0,547" slide.
TR-159 has 9" gold brass bell (I think) and dual bore slide. Friedman model.

There are also 258 and 259 with screw bell. Not common.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
TubaDavey
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by TubaDavey » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:22 am

I had a vintage TR-158 for a while. Very solid horn that played well, very much like an 88H (which I believe it was based off of). Of the 4 listed, its the only one I have hands on experience with but it was positive.
hyperbolica
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by hyperbolica » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:04 pm

Just for reference, the 159 and some versions of the 158 and 156 (a straight version of the 158) have a .562 lower slide as well as the big bell, and probably require someone with a lot of chops and wind to play them. Or they also make great 3rd chair horns. I have owned the 156 and 159. I played the 156 in the late 1980s when I was playing professionally, and it was beautiful in an orchestral section of big horns, but wow, did it take a lot of stamina to ride that horse. The 159 is " this far from being a single trigger bass. It has a glorious sound, and might sound best on the lower part of the bass clef staff. I put an Eb extension on it, and it was scary how nice it sounded down low for a horn that's supposed to be a tenor trombone.

The difference between the 159 and the 158 w/dual bore is the trigger and the wrap. The 158 has a standard 88h type closed wrap, and the 159 is more like the King or Yamaha wrap. I don't like the trigger mechanism on the 159 (it pivots in an odd place), but the rest of the Holtons I think are ok.

If you're going to give these to kids, or underpowered adults, the 156, 158, 159 might not be the best choices. The 150 is the 547 workhorse of the Holton large bores, and can be had cheaper than an 88h. That is probably most appropriate for general low budget large bore F attachment playing. King 4b and Benge 165 along with the appropriate Yamaha models (447/448) are probably more readily available, however.

Condition of older horns trumps almost everything else, so unless you don't mind reselling stuff you don't like, you're best off if you can test horns before you buy them.
skaskaster
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Re: Budget large trombones

Post by skaskaster » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:41 am

I can recommend to find a King 4b with f attachment. They can cost 500-800$ on ebay. And if you will find the vinatage one with "Sonorous" on the bell - that will be the sweet sound.
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