Versions of the Bach 16

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hyperbolica
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Versions of the Bach 16

Post by hyperbolica » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:47 pm

Can someone please help me understand the versions of the Bach 16? I know the basic 16 is ~495/509, the M is straight 509. And then there's the lt16m with the lightweight slide.

But are there 16m without the "m" on the bell engraving, or without the "lt" on the slide?

Was there a version where "m" meant slide bore and bigger neck pipe? Any other variations of this model, I'm not a big Bach follower.
Thx.
bimmerman
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by bimmerman » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:50 pm

here's my understanding:

Bach 16: .495/508, standard neckpipes.
Bach LT16: same but with optional LTW slide.

Bach LT16M, up to ~mid-80s: .508 single bore, LTW slide, standard neckpipe. Bell is marked 16, slide 16M.
Bach LT16M, 80s onwards: same as above but with larger neckpipe. Bell and slide marked 16M

On top of those variants, you could also have a gold brass bell (eg 16G) or a Sterling Plus bell.

I have one of each of the LT16M eras. I don't notice a huge difference in the neckpipe.
hyperbolica
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by hyperbolica » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:39 pm

Ok, thanks, thats pretty much what I was looking for.
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dukesboneman
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by dukesboneman » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:52 am

I have a Lt16MG from the `90s with the open gooseneck and had an earlier Lt16MG with a standard 16G bell with the standard gooseneck and there was a huge difference
hyperbolica
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by hyperbolica » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:20 am

dukesboneman wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:52 am
I have a Lt16MG from the `90s with the open gooseneck and had an earlier Lt16MG with a standard 16G bell with the standard gooseneck and there was a huge difference
So I assume you prefer the newer one? Do you think keeping the bell under 8" with the bigger slide and neckpipe is a plus or minus for the model?
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dukesboneman
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by dukesboneman » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:09 pm

I`m not sure what you mean by a bigger slide?. With the Lt16MG , the open neck pipe or gooseneck really makes a difference. I have 2 12`s and on them I like the "tighter" gooseneck.
Doug Elliott
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by Doug Elliott » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:12 pm

I always felt like the open gooseneck was a bit too open. But I've never actually owned one.
I think it was in the late 70's when they changed that.
hyperbolica
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by hyperbolica » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:57 pm

What 16 configuration was offered in the Mt Vernon era?
LarryPrestonRoberson
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by LarryPrestonRoberson » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:29 am

The LT16M is .509" bore. Mine dates to the 80s and I believe it is the regular gooseneck. Or, at least it lacks the 'M' designation on the bell section. Although, I bought it secondhand; So, I suppose it might not be the original bell section.
TheBoneRanger
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by TheBoneRanger » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:20 am

LarryPrestonRoberson wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:29 am
Mine dates to the 80s and I believe it is the regular gooseneck. Or, at least it lacks the 'M' designation on the bell section.
This is correct. No "M" on the bell, no open gooseneck.

I have one of these. I love it.

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Cmillar
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by Cmillar » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:56 pm

When I bought my used Bach from Dillons a few years ago, it had a standardweight 70’s vintage 16 slide (duobore) but came with a 16M bell.

Nice combination, but the slide crook developed some red rot and needed to be changed. So, we decided to put on a 3B crook.

Created an even nicer horn then...but the best thing I’ve done is to have recently put in a Brass Ark 32H lead pipe ( ordered to fit the top .495 slide )

Now.. a real nice horn! Thanks to Noah at Brass Ark for the great work.
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by Bonearzt » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:19 pm

Cmillar wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:56 pm
When I bought my used Bach from Dillons a few years ago, it had a standardweight 70’s vintage 16 slide (duobore) but came with a 16M bell.
Nice combination, but the slide crook developed some red rot and needed to be changed. So, we decided to put on a 3B crook.
Created an even nicer horn then...but the best thing I’ve done is to have recently put in a Brass Ark 32H lead pipe ( ordered to fit the top .495 slide )
Now.. a real nice horn! Thanks to Noah at Brass Ark for the great work.
The rounded King crook really lets this horn sing, IMHO! And helps lighten it a bit due to no ferrules!


Eric
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Cmillar
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by Cmillar » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:18 am

Yes Eric...the 3B crook is great. Makes for a very versatile horn.

And with the 32H lead-pipe!....yeah baby.
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dukesboneman
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by dukesboneman » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:06 pm

I had an Lt16M for a number of years with 3B crooks on the hand slide and the tuning slide and a Kanstul/Herrick H8
leadpipe. OMG !! The horn wass soooo open and responsive. The upper range was nuts. I had an otheer Lt16MG for a while with an Edwards slide crook and an Edwards #2 leadpipe - not so good,
bimmerman
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by bimmerman » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:18 pm

with the 3B crook mod, does the slide need to be widened or narrowed?

It'd be pretty neat to just swap outer slides between a modded and unmodified one.
Cmillar
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by Cmillar » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:31 pm

Don't believe so. I had mine modified/repaired when I was in Toronto by famed repairman Ron Partch / Partch BrassWind (he's also a great bass trombone player!)

I think he just soldered it right in place. He never mentioned any adjustments had to be made. He re-aligned slide, etc. and it's been beautiful.
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Re: Versions of the Bach 16

Post by Davidus1 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:10 pm

Great info! Thanks for sharing.
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