“Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

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Goodgig
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“Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by Goodgig » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:31 am

Just bought a Conn 88H that was made in 1972- the first year of production after Conn moved to Aberline. (Interesting it says Aberline Texas on the bell). Does anyone know what year Conn switched from the so-called Remington taper to the Morse taper? In the case were an original Remington (no size or number) and A 6 1/2 AL. Not a fan of the Remington. The 61/2AL seals OK but wondering if I should drop money on a Remington shank 6-1/2 for even more fun.
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pedrombon
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by pedrombon » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:33 am

Aberline or Abilene?
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BGuttman
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by BGuttman » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:49 am

The town is Abilene (Texas).

Conn did not abandon the B&S Taper until the Gen II horns, or long after the demise of the Abilene facility.

Bach made a few special mouthpieces with the B&S taper. These are *R. I sold a 5GR to a friend for her Elkhart 88H and she really loves it.

You can have the leadpipe changed to the Morse taper, or do what we all did: put a wrap or two of teflon tape around the upper part of the shank until it doesn't wobble. The seal is at the tip.

Note that long shank Schilke mouthpieces (generally older ones) fit the B&S taper quite well. Also, Doug Elliott makes a shank for these instruments.
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Doug Elliott
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by Doug Elliott » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:34 pm

A Morse taper shank will seal but not play as well as it should - it leaves a gap around the end of the shank which has a bad acoustic effect even without leaking.
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by Slidemo » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:59 pm

Having the correct tapered mouthpiece makes a huge difference on these instruments. They slot so much better.

I can highly recommend Doug Elliott's Conn shank with the added bonus of matching any cup and rim. Brings the old Elkhart horns to life.

There are other stock pieces out there like the Conn 5GR which you could try as well.

Good hunting....

Hamo.
imsevimse
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by imsevimse » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:39 pm

My Abilene Conn 88h from 1979 came with Remington mouthpiece. I played many years on a Wick 6BL that did not fit. Many did the same on the same music college in the 80-ies. Nobody talked about Remington verses Moorse tapers.

It is after I learned about this on TTF that I special ordered my mouthpieces from Karl Hammond with Remington taper. The horn plays much better for me now with a mouthpiece that fits.

/Tom
"Do your best and then do better" ttf_watermailonman
Goodgig
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by Goodgig » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:10 pm

Thank you for the info. I really like the way this sounds and plays with the standard large bore 6 1/2 AL. Like you said it should only improve the playability with the properly fitted piece. I’ll look around for a Bach 6-1/2 AL with the R shank. In the mean time I ordered, from Hickey’s, a Remington adapter to play my small shank mouthpieces in the 88H.
Posaunus
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by Posaunus » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:52 pm

My 1972 88H ("R" serial number) was probably finished in Abilene from Elkhart parts. There is no manufacturing location on the bell - it's engraved "CONN - Made in U.S.A." It looks and plays exactly like the very fine earlier Elkhart 88Hs that I've played; I love it. When I bought it in 1972, it was provided with a Remington mouthpiece, which (of course) fits the receiver perfectly, but never really agreed with me. I tried a Bach 6½AL, but really found the best match to this trombone with a (long-shank) Schilke 51. Seems to fit the taper very well, as it does my playing style.

As Doug Elliott has pointed out, standard large-shank (e.g., Bach) mouthpieces don't work as well. If you like the 6½AL cup size, and don't want to pay for a special order, you might try to find a similarly-sized long-shank Schilke 50.
Goodgig
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by Goodgig » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:15 pm

Bruce - I wrapped plumbers tape on both ends of the 6 1/2 AL shank and it improves the fit and performance.

Posaunus - Thanks for the info. Mine is also an R serial number: R114XX. I've never had the pleasure of playing an Elkhart, but I did try a new 88H recently and was not impressed. The '72 AbiIene plays and sounds much better. No comparison, actually. I get why the older horns are so coveted. I use to have a long shank Schilke 51 that I played with a King Silversonic Symphony. As I remember it had a nice sound and I would no doubt like it for this 88H.
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greenbean
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by greenbean » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:30 pm

Modern Schilkes have a dual taper and should fit, too. I really like the Symphony series...
mrdeacon
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by mrdeacon » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:21 am

greenbean wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:30 pm
Modern Schilkes have a dual taper and should fit, too. I really like the Symphony series...
I don't think you're right... But I don't have a modern Schilke or a Remington taper horn to compare it with...

Can someone else confirm this?
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Basbasun
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by Basbasun » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:37 am

"Nobody talked about Remington verses Moorse tapers. " Oh yes. I did. :wink:
imsevimse
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by imsevimse » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:51 am

Basbasun wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:37 am
"Nobody talked about Remington verses Moorse tapers. " Oh yes. I did. :wink:
You are right, Sven. You did mention this to me and others but let me refrase that to "Nobody understood about Remington versus Moorse tapers". We were many who were to stupid to grasp the big consequences it had to the playing characteristics of our old Conn 88h horns.

We had no clue how to solve the problem either, but to play the original Remington mouthpiece. I think many students considered the Remington bad and to small for the ideal sound of that period. From what I recall a few choose a Bach 4G for the Conn 88h and the Bach 42. Those were the hype trombones in the 80-ies.

There were many of us who used mouthpieces that did not fit and a lot did good dispite that.

During college the majority of my lessons I had with the teacher who sold me his Wick 6BL and he never brought up the subject of Remington and Moorse tapered horns and what that meant. Maybe he was a Bach guy and had not experienced the problem? I was no collector at the time so I was not interested enough about equipment to notice and investigate things like that.

It was after a discussion on TTF that someone gave me the idea to specialorder the Hammond mouthpieces I like with Remington taper instead. It cost a little extra, but that made me order a 12M, 12ML, 12MXL, 11ML and a 20BL with Remington taper. They are worth every penny.

/Tom
"Do your best and then do better" ttf_watermailonman
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greenbean
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by greenbean » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:08 am

mrdeacon wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:21 am
greenbean wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:30 pm
Modern Schilkes have a dual taper and should fit, too. I really like the Symphony series...
I don't think you're right... But I don't have a modern Schilke or a Remington taper horn to compare it with...

Can someone else confirm this?
Well, I have been wrong before... :D

If I can locate the Schilke M5.1 tomorrow, I will try it out in an Elkhart 8H.
hornbuilder
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by hornbuilder » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:49 am

The old "Long shank" Schilkes had the dual taper. The modern "M" series do not.
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greenbean
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Re: “Remington” or Morse Taper on 88H

Post by greenbean » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:20 am

hornbuilder wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:49 am
The old "Long shank" Schilkes had the dual taper. The modern "M" series do not.
Well, I guess I was wrong again!

I will just quietly go away now... :)
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