Conn 30H Burkle Question

[Samdance]

Hello all,

I am thinking about buying a 30H, but was wondering if it has a setback or ballroom bell like a Conn 24H, or if it is more like a 6H. I far prefer the setback bell, so if it doesn't I will buy a 24H.

Best,

MB

[hyperbolica]

Yes, I've seen these referred to as ballroom. The 30h and 24h are very different instruments, however. 30h is dual bore and a bit darker sounding than the 24h. The 30h has the narrowest slide I've ever seen. I've owned both, and although I like the fat sound of the 30h, I much prefer to play the 24h.

[Samdance]

Thank you for the insight, which one would you use for lead playing?

M

[hyperbolica]

Definitely 24h. Great high range.

[dxhall]

I have one of each and would disagree. To my ear, the 30h has a brighter sound than the 24h and would cut through the other instruments more easily.

[Posaunus]

The 1928-1932 Conn 22H (0.458" bore) and the 1924-1951 24H (0.484" bore) were both "ballroom" models, with the bell set back near the player so it is easy to reach for muting.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn22H1928image.html
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn24H1940image.html

The Conn 40H and 42H were also "ballroom" models:
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn40H1927image.html
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn42H192ximage.html
These were both "tuning-in-slide" and had the bell set back near the player.

Much as I like older models, I've never played a 24H, but I have both a 30H "Burkle" (0.494"/0.507" dual-bore), and a 40H (0.500" bore), and like them - both for their attention-getting novelty and for their distinct, easy-playing sound.

Unlike hyperbolica, I have no problem with the 30H's narrow slide. Mine plays great. (I have a "narrow" neck.) Not really like a 6H. Small (7") bell. Surprisingly big sound.

It takes a while to get used to the 40H's (slightly heavier) TIS slide, but it's a fun horn to play.

I tend to use a Conn 3 mouthpiece on each.

[hyperbolica]

I have a 32h which is currently in the shop getting a Yamaha 356 crook put on it just to widen the slide. I hope to be able to use this slide on my 79h as well. The 32h slide never sounded good on the 79h.

I've always wanted a 42h, but not willing to pay the rarity tax. I like TIS.

I like the warmth of the 30h, but just can't get past the narrow slide. Bach 16 is fine. 32h is even better , but again the narrow slide is an issue. If you check the forum's slide width list post, the 30h is the narrowest of any trombone.

To me the 24h is just a more stable instrument. It has a better defined character. It plays big even with its small bore. Between the two, the 24h is the better lead instrument. I'm not sure what I'd choose a 30h for. I like the 32h for solos, tbone quartet, brass quintet playing when I want to lean more toward the trumpets than the horn.

[Samdance]

I really appreciate all the thoughts and insights. I am leaning towards the 24H as it seems to have a more setback bell like my Williams 6. Frankly, neither is too expensive so I may just find one of each and then keep the one that works for me.

I play a Bach 7c for small/lead work, any problems with those on the Conns?

[hyperbolica]

I don't think either horn is very mouthpiece dependent. I use DE pieces, in C and D cup sizes. C is probably most appropriate. Your 7c is probably fine.

[pjanda1]

I've only had one 30H. It sounded great, but didn't slot well above high Bb, at least for me, and really started to close down. My 24H and 32H are both far superior in that regard--especially the 32H. (I'm struck by how different the 30H and 32H are in every conceivable way, but that is a topic for a different thread).

I don't notice bell position much and my former 30H had a goofy alignment side to side (that horn in particular). The 30H slide is VERY narrow. That doesn't bother me, but I know it doesn't work for some (likely why a previous owner set up the receiver that way on the one I had).

Neither of my 24Hs or the 30H have been bright. If you find trouble in that regarding, maybe something other than a 7C would be the ticket (like a good 11C or 6 3/4C or 6 1/2A, etc. etc.).

It is also worth noting that all horns are highly variable and both individual instrument and vintage matter. I had and sold a much newer 24H (50's as opposed to 20's) that indeed sounded more modern than my darker, smokier pre-WWII 24H (and those newer slides are easier to get working better). If I had needed a 24H to be my only small horn, I might have kept the newer one and sold the older one. But I don't.

If you really want a "ballroom" option, I've got a rough 40H I *might* consider parting with (tuning-in-slide ballroom .500 bore). But then, I also just picked up a later model 6H and am tossing around making a Frankenhorn TIS 6H. Maybe with the bell off my very old 78H. Or at least getting the 40H in good enough shape to compare to the rest of the stable.

If you can, I'd advise following your idea of getting a few and then selling the ones that aren't your favorites! Both 24Hs and 30Hs are badly undervalued, IMO. 30Hs are a bit rare, but it is not hard to find an array of affordable 24Hs.

Paul