Heavy bell favorites

[Chatname]

I played a Bach gold brass heavy bell for the longest time, and still use it occasionally. Heavy bells seem to be out of fashion, but for those of us who like them: what’s your favorite heavy bell? And are there successful modern brands/models with heavy bells?

[MrHCinDE]

I have a Shires 2R bell mounted on my modular Bach-42-based horn.

As I found out in this thread, the Shires 2R with no other letters was classified as heavier than medium weight by current standards.
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php ... 2r#p171779

Whilst it was being fitted with a Bach tuning slide receiver, the craftsman doing the work commented that the stem was actually relatively thin metal at the tuning slide receiver end but the flare seems fairly sturdy. The Shires 2R was a very similar length from the stem to bell as my Bach 42 bell and visually at least seems to have a similar shape through the throat.

The 2R plays great, I have no feeling at all that is it any more effort to play the more delicate parts or to make it colour than the same setup with my yellow brass Bach 42 bell or on an 88h. This was my concern but it hasn’t materialised. I really like the extra player feedback compared with my fairly light yellow brass Bach bell.

The only very slight downside with the Shires 2R bell over my other lighter bell is that the (for me) extreme upper range needs more concentration. Ds come out well with the 2R but anything higher takes a lot of work. This could be improved by practice I’m sure and how often am I playing Eb and above anyway!

The Shires 2R holds together really well for me at high volume, but can also be coloured. In other words, it is tonally very flexible.

I’m told by those who have listened in front of the bell that the 2R also projects well, on a par with the Bach 42.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

In 1993, Todd Clontz made a custom horn for me that he affectionately nicknamed “The Beast.” He liked it so much that, when I picked it up, he asked me if he “could play a few notes on it before sending it off.” I waited for over two hours while he was playing it. It truly lives up to its nickname.

The horn has two slides: Bach 42/50 dual bore (.547-.562) and a Bach 50 straight bore (.562). An Orla Ed Thayer valve with reverse tuning within the F section. A Benge 190 (much wider than Bach) main tuning slide set up in reverse style. The bell section is set up with “edge style” bracing. Keep in mind that this was several years before “edge” bracing became an option with the boutique horns. The clincher was the bell……a Bach 42GHM. Most people think that the M only refers to an open gooseneck. This bell is actually slightly larger……just a hair under 8.75 inches. The throat of the bell might be slightly larger, but I cannot confirm that.

The slides are silver plated and the bell section is in gold plate. I used it as my primary orchestral instrument for about 15 years. When I was younger, I really loved the way it responded and gave me excellent feedback. I could play fortissimo with no worries about getting edgy or brassy. After enduring a couple of ridiculous “pops” programs, it struck me that I was probably working a little too hard and I decided to tone down my equipment a little bit. However, I still use it if I need a huge sound for a large ensemble job. It does take me 2-3 days to acclimate to the tuning idiosyncrasies, but that is very manageable. The horn is just so much fun to play!

The horn also served as inspiration for getting into instrument repair and customization. It made me aware that anything is possible when constructing instruments.

[GabrielRice]

The George Curran model Shires has a fairly heavy bell. If I read the specs correctly, so does the David Rejano model.

The Bollinger model does not have a particularly heavy bell, but there is weight added to other places on the instrument.

I played for a while on a BII 7Y, which is similar to the Curran bell - and quite heavy. I find I prefer the response and tonal flexibility of the 7YM and 7GM, however, and I recently sold my 7Y to a friend who plays in large orchestras. His first impression was that he loved it.

[Chatname]

Yes, I noticed the Rejano bell seems really heavy, with the screw bell rings. Would like to play test it!
42GHM, that’s the one I have too! Fantastic bell! I hadn’t noticed it’s bigger, but that makes sense. It’s great in the orchestra!
2R, is that different than 2RVE? Heavier, I guess?

[MrHCinDE]

I never tried a 2RVE for direct comparison but from what others wrote in the thread I linked above, I would expect the 2R to be heavier than the 2RVE.

[Chatname]

Whilst it was being fitted with a Bach tuning slide receiver, the craftsman doing the work commented that the stem was actually relatively thin metal at the tuning slide receiver end but the flare seems fairly sturdy.

I have been wondering about this: if a bell is heavier or lighter, is it only the flare usually or even the stem? Let’s say Shires 7 bells which are 2 piece bells, for example. Or the 1 piece bells like the Bach 42 HGM, that must be thicker the whole bell of course, right?

[Burgerbob]

I had a '90s Bach 50 bell from a ruined 50B that I had cut. I never played it before having it converted. It turned out to be a really heavy monster of a bell! Amazing sound, especially when playing loud. However, t was a lot of work to play... normal music, and I sold it to a big orchestra guy.

[Kbiggs]

I remember the bigger and heavier craze…

I still have a 42H yellow bell that I played a lot for a few years. I used a Monette mouthpiece, an open leadpipe, a Thayer valve, an open neckpipe… I was playing in a quintet with guys who worked at the Monette shop and who played Monette trumpets, someone who played a Conn 8D (and then someone else who played a Berg), and a York copy tuba. Big, open sound, lots of air.

I played that setup for an old teacher of mine. He asked me, “Why are you trying to dance ballet in caulk (logging boots; pronounced “cork”) boots?”

I eventually switched back to my standard 42 bell, an Instrument Innovations valve, and an M/K 42V leadpipe. I use either a DE 102X G and G+ or a GB 5.25 or 5.5 mouthpiece. Much more characteristic sound, and easier to play in all settings.

I’m not saying heavy bells don’t work. They obviously do for some people in some settings. To play a heavy bell well, I think you have to have all your mechanics and fundamentals in place, and you have to have a venue that responds well to that setup. That’s my opinion though, and it along with $2 will buy you a cup o’ coffee…

[GabrielRice]

I never tried a 2RVE for direct comparison but from what others wrote in the thread I linked above, I would expect the 2R to be heavier than the 2RVE.

The 2RVE is much lighter than the 2R.

[GabrielRice]

I have been wondering about this: if a bell is heavier or lighter, is it only the flare usually or even the stem? Let’s say Shires 7 bells which are 2 piece bells, for example. Or the 1 piece bells like the Bach 42 HGM, that must be thicker the whole bell of course, right?

In order for a one-piece bell to be generally heavier, it has to start with thicker sheet brass. The process of forming the sheet brass to the bell shape generally results in the thinnest point being the end of the flare just before the bead.

A two-piece bell can be constructed from two different thicknesses of sheet brass, and many models are. The 2RVE, for example, has a thinner stem and a thicker flare.

Steve Shires always liked to keep the specifics of the designs quiet if not totally confidential - he likened it to the difference between reading a menu and reading a recipe. He did not want to publish the recipes of his bell designs.

[GabrielRice]

When I was doing sales for Shires, one of the most popular bells was the 1G - standard weight gold brass, soldered bead. The Shires standard weight probably fell closer to a Bach heavy bell than a Bach standard bell, considering that the company was founded in the midst of the fashion for heavy equipment.

The 1G is a great bell, easy to make a thick sound but in no way dull in sound or response. I know of a few prominent players and educators who still use and love a 1G as their everyday bell.

[JeffBone44]

When I was doing sales for Shires, one of the most popular bells was the 1G - standard weight gold brass, soldered bead. The Shires standard weight probably fell closer to a Bach heavy bell than a Bach standard bell, considering that the company was founded in the midst of the fashion for heavy equipment.

The 1G is a great bell, easy to make a thick sound but in no way dull in sound or response. I know of a few prominent players and educators who still use and love a 1G as their everyday bell.

Around 2014 I bought a Shires Pro-select model bass trombone. I was told that the bell is fairly similar to a 2G. It’s gold brass and has an unsoldered bead. Also a nice bell. I eventually got the horn converted to custom and I still have that bell today, although my main bell now is a vintage NY one-piece yellow bell.

[JeffBone44]

I had a '90s Bach 50 bell from a ruined 50B that I had cut. I never played it before having it converted. It turned out to be a really heavy monster of a bell! Amazing sound, especially when playing loud. However, t was a lot of work to play... normal music, and I sold it to a big orchestra guy.

I used to have a Shires 1YHW bell. It turned out to be too much bell for me to handle, so I eventually sold mine too.

[Posaunus]

“Why are you trying to dance ballet in caulk (logging boots; pronounced “cork”) boots?”

Hmm. I always thought the etymology was just the opposite:
Corked boots (with metal spikes imbedded in the cork or rubber soles) became known as "cork boots," but pronounced by the loggers in Maine (where R's are dropped as rapidly as limbs from a tree) as "caulk boots."

I guess I spent too much time in New England! English is an interesting language.

[BrianJohnston]

None. Thin bells all the way.

[RustBeltBass]

Edwards 1023CF. BOOM !!!

[Kbiggs]

“Why are you trying to dance ballet in caulk (logging boots; pronounced “cork”) boots?”

Hmm. I always thought the etymology was just the opposite:
Corked boots (with metal spikes imbedded in the cork or rubber soles) became known as "cork boots," but pronounced by the loggers in Maine (where R's are dropped as rapidly as limbs from a tree) as "caulk boots."

I guess I spent too much time in New England! English is an interesting language.

Ah, yes the English language! Made all the more interesting when slaughtered by regional accents!

“Caulk” or “cork” boots is what the loggers in the Pacific Northwest called them. My oldest brother was a logger for almost 35 years. Crazy profession filled with crazy people.

For a time we lived in Baltimore (BAH-mer). When we eventually moved to Eureka, California, the nearest major street was called Buhne, pronounced “BOO-ner.” BOO-ner was a businessman from BAH-mer who moved to Eureka to capitalize on the logging boom in the late 19th century.

Anyhoo, I scaled down on my equipment after I left that quintet. I still have the heavy bell, although I haven’t played it in years.

[Chatname]

The clincher was the bell……a Bach 42GHM. Most people think that the M only refers to an open gooseneck. This bell is actually slightly larger……just a hair under 8.75 inches. The throat of the bell might be slightly larger, but I cannot confirm that.

My Bach bell is at work, however my colleague measured his Bach 42 GHM from the early 90’s (we bought them at the same time) and claimed it is 8.47…
(215mm). I’ll measure mine as well tomorrow.
So what does the M mean? GH only means Gold Heavy, right?

[pedrombon]

M=open neckpipe (I think... )

[Crazy4Tbone86]

M=open neckpipe (I think... )

Yes, but on the 42 models, I have heard they do something different with bell as well. My 42GHM bell is almost 8.75 inches in diameter, so there is one small difference. The extra .25 inch diameter was not a specific custom order. I did the original order and was the original owner of the straight bell instrument.

[hornbuilder]

We may just be discussing the vagaries of Bach manufacturing, as I know of several 42HM, GHM, GM which are the standard 8.5" dia.

[Chatname]

I measured my HGM now, 8.75”!