Separate bell flares

[Chatname]

Which makers of modular trombones offer separate bell flares for screw bells? Lawler I know, how about Shires? Others?
More and more models are made detachable, it would seem like the logical next step to sell separate flares, like anything else can be bought separately on a modular instrument. On a french horn, that’s what they do every few years (at least my colleagues): keep the rest of the horn but buy a new flare.
Flares of different materials, weights and diameters, I would think there would be a market waiting as more and more players have detachable bells.

[Burgerbob]

Peter Steiner had these for his Thein. He would put on an 8" flare of some other material for the really technical stuff. Can't help but notice that he doesn't do that with his new Bach, though.

[Chatname]

Yes, even from my own experience I gather that’s what often happens with modular horns: one tries out a lot of stuff and ends up with something pretty standard most of the time, like a 8.5” flare on the Steiner Bach A47. And end up selling or storing the extra parts. However from an industry standpoint it would seem advantageous to have yet another part to sell to overly curious people like myself who just cannot resist the temptations!

[harrisonreed]

The BAC horns let you do that.

[Matt K]

I would love to do that to me 7YLW8. It’s vertically replaced my 2RVET7. Feel like I could replace it with an 8.5” flare for the few times I do classical stuff anymore.

[muschem]

Butler will make a carbon fiber flare in various sizes if you want to try that material. You just have to send the ring in. I thought about trying one on my Shires tenor, but ultimately decided the full CF horns work for me.

[Matt K]

Uhhhh, honestly that's a really good idea that I'm surprised I didn't think of. Have you tried using a brass stem and a carbon fiber flare? It would pain me to sell my 2RVET7 bell section but at this point it's hard to justify keeping it around with how little I play it since the 7 bell just works so well for me.

[muschem]

Have you tried using a brass stem and a carbon fiber flare?

I haven't. I thought very hard about it. If I keep my Shires, I may still do it. I don't think I've seen anyone with that setup, either. I've seen carbon fiber slide outer paired with brass bell. I've also seen some CF hybrid in other parts of the bell section and/or the full stem+flare. Haven't run across a brass stem and CF flare yet, though. Here's a link to the custom form - looks like the flare is $450, and you can get it in 8", 8.5", or 9.5":

https://butlertrombones.com/?page_id=397&v=7516fd43adaa

[tbonesullivan]

I seem to recall seeing some old custom Conn trombones for sale some years ago that had screw bells with two flares.

[Matt K]

Hmmmm, very tempting...

[BGuttman]

I seem to recall seeing some old custom Conn trombones for sale some years ago that had screw bells with two flares.

Particularly the Gardell Simons horn that I believe belongs to Steve Dillon.

Roy Benson has been selling trombones with removable flares for a long time. In fact, when you buy a horn from him you get two flares with it. Unfortunately, Roy has decided to retire

[Enelson]

Michael B. Nelson with a Butler CF bell flare, brass bell section and Butler CF slide.

Some shots of it from about 1:35.

[Gfunk]

I seem to recall seeing some old custom Conn trombones for sale some years ago that had screw bells with two flares.

I actually know of one in the flesh. A friend ended up buying it, and I think by happenstance it ended up it with a pro in the area prior. It’s a pre WWII horn with a cut bell with two flares. One at 8 inches, making it useful in a modern context and the other at something super tiny like 6.75 inches. The slide was trashed, and I think he ended up having the bell mated to 2B parts, or at the least a receiver for a 2B slide. The bell was stupidly soldered together at some point, but thankfully it’s the 8 inch flare. Not sure if he ever got it unsoldered or not.

[ithinknot]

Roy Benson has been selling trombones with removable flares for a long time. In fact, when you buy a horn from him you get two flares with it. Unfortunately, Roy has decided to retire

Lawler, you mean. As Jinbao's anglophone ambassador, Roy Benson can and will never retire; the world's supply of pocket trumpets named after an obscure mid-century magician remains safe.

[Matt K]

I was wondering about that!!

Lawler wouldn't sell just the flares (I inquired awhile ago). You had to buy the whole thing. Makes sense, but I never had the bread to splurge on a new one. Played one at ETW a few years ago that was absolute dream.

[BGuttman]

Oops Early Alzheimers kicking in. Lawlor made great trombones. Too bad I love F-attachments too much.

[pedrombon]

Sonas Trombones build bell flares separately. I have two 8,5" flares (yellow and gold brass) and asked them to make a pair pair of 8" flares (yellow and red brass) for my Sonas Stelo. And I've already ordered a 9" flare for my Sonas Eklipso bass trombone

[jacobgarchik]

I have a screw bell 42b and a screw bell 36. Both Alexander collars. So I guess I could do this but I have never had a reason to. I suppose it might be interesting to tweak the 36 to play a tad darker than it does.
Actually a good reason would be if I did a tour with a lot of small planes where I wanted to fit my 42b into my Marcus Bonna small bore detachable bell case which maxes out at an 8" bell flare.

[jacobgarchik]

I once had a gig with a horn player who had an Alexander collar and we put the 8 1/2" trombone flare on his horn. It was a very interesting sound, a horn/trombone hybrid. Somebody should really explore that avenue further...
I don't think you can fit a horn flare on a trombone without a bizarre angle between slide and bell section...didn't J.J. try a giant bell in the 80s?

[Matt K]

I have a screw bell 42b and a screw bell 36. Both Alexander collars. So I guess I could do this but I have never had a reason to. I suppose it might be interesting to tweak the 36 to play a tad darker than it does.
Actually a good reason would be if I did a tour with a lot of small planes where I wanted to fit my 42b into my Marcus Bonna small bore detachable bell case which maxes out at an 8" bell flare.

Yeah in your case, since the 36 and 42 bells are essentially identical other than the last .5" extra on the 42, that makes total sense. Although I will say that 8.5" bell on a 525 slide is a pretty cool combo, in my opinion. 8" on a 547 slide is a little weirder.

[afugate]

Michael B. Nelson with a Butler CF bell flare, brass bell section and Butler CF slide.

Some shots of it from about 1:35.

Dang that's good!

--Andy in OKC

[Enelson]

Since acquiring a used LAWLER MODEL 1 with 2 bell flares, I am completely sold on the concept of detachable bell flares for sound and transport. Of course, the horn slots incredibly well and I love how it plays regardless of chosen flare, but my interest in cut bell horns has increased dramatically now that I have first-hand experience.

What came as a complete surprise is that detachable bell trombones have been around in pretty much the same design as today for a 100 years. A french horn buddy sent me this link. Thought about posting it in the recent “beautiful instruments” thread, but I am more interested in feedback on the history of cut bell trombones.

Are more of you surprised that this horn existed or am I just late to the party?

https://www.robbstewart.com/conn-62h-trombone

[Chatname]

I had no idea! Nothing new under the sun…
That is truly amazing!!!