Getting back into playing, found trombone.

[hornado]

I haven't played in a few years and I'm wanting to get back into playing. Mostly jazz/bigband/funk etc... as wind band and orchestra are reserved for my other love (Horn).

Budget around $1000ish. For years I played on a sliver plated Conn Director student model that has seen better days. I'm not sure the specs, but I feel like it was a really small bore. I kinda liked how zingy it could get when pushed but maybe want something that can also warm up a bit more if needed.

After reading around and looking at what's available out there currently I'm considering:
Conn 6h
King 3B (F or no?)
Selmer Bolero (haven't found any examples of sound but from reading a bit easier than 3B?)

Thoughts? Something else I should consider?

UPDATE: I ended up getting a 2B SS. Scroll down for details.

[tbonesullivan]

Plenty of different horns come to mind. I'd think you would want a .500 - .508 bore horn for that, maybe down to .480"? The King 2B is nice as well, and there are some good models from Olds as well.

Not sure you'd really need an F attachment, and that would definitely add to the cost, and possible servicing needs.

[Posaunus]

I think you're on the right track. You can purchase excellent used straight tenor trombones for $1,000 or less - Conn 6H, Conn 48H, King 2B, King 3B, (or even a King 606), a few Bachs and Yamahas that I'm not familiar with, perhaps even a Getzen 3508 or an Olds Recording. If you want an F-attachment, you can't go wrong with a King 3B-F. Of course you could spend a lot more for something a bit "snazzier!"

You may have to experiment a bit (but not too much) to find the best mouthpiece for your new trombone.

You'll get much too much "helpful" advice from us TromboneChat members!

[hornado]

I think you're on the right track. You can purchase excellent used straight tenor trombones for $1,000 or less - Conn 6H, Conn 48H, King 2B, King 3B, (or even a King 606), a few Bachs and Yamahas that I'm not familiar with, perhaps even a Getzen 3508 or an Olds Recording. If you want an F-attachment, you can't go wrong with a King 3B-F. Of course you could spend a lot more for something a bit "snazzier!"

You may have to experiment a bit (but not too much) to find the best mouthpiece for your new trombone.

You'll get much too much "helpful" advice from us TromboneChat members!

I'll take any bit of helpful advice I can get. If memory serves, I played the Conn with a Conn 3 I think it was. Never experimented, but never really found a need to. Am willing though if need be.

[BGuttman]

An F-attachment on a trombone is comparable to the Bb valve on your horn (in fact it works just in the opposite direction -- pressing the lever changes the trombone from Bb to F). Do you need it? The F attachment is generally used to extend range downwards. You may not need it depending on what types of parts you play.

You can get a lot of instruments in your price point; mostly used. For a tenor part in Big Band you could consider:

Bach 8, 12, 16(M)
Benge 170
Conn 4H, 6H, 10H, 12H, 24H, 32H, 38H, 40H, 48H, 76H, 100H
Getzen 1050
Holton 65, 67
King 2B, 2B+, 3B
Martin Committee, Urbie
Olds Recording, Studio, Super, Radio
Reynolds Argenta
Yamaha 651, 653, 691, 695, 697

Or you could go for a good student horn:

Conn Director
King Tempo 606,
Yamaha 354 (preferred)

I have played 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in Big Band on a Holton 67 (Stratodyne), Martin Committee, Martin Imperial, King 2B, and Conn 40H. All straight tenors, 0,485"-0.500"

Check our Classifieds, visit Dillon Music in New Jersey, or contact Forum Member DJ Kennedy (active on the Facebook Chat) for sources.

[Posaunus]

f memory serves, I played the Conn with a Conn 3 I think it was. Never experimented, but never really found a need to. Am willing though if need be.

Conn 3 mouthpiece is a perfectly good starting point, especially for a Conn trombone. If that's what you have, use it. [I played on a Conn 3 with a Conn 6H trombone at a rehearsal today. Worked just fine.] Affordable, too. Don't let us Chatters lure you into the mouthpiece merry-go-round unless you really need a change!

[Cotboneman]

An F-attachment on a trombone is comparable to the Bb valve on your horn (in fact it works just in the opposite direction -- pressing the lever changes the trombone from Bb to F). Do you need it? The F attachment is generally used to extend range downwards. You may not need it depending on what types of parts you play.

You can get a lot of instruments in your price point; mostly used. For a tenor part in Big Band you could consider:

Bach 8, 12, 16(M)
Benge 170
Conn 4H, 6H, 10H, 12H, 24H, 32H, 38H, 40H, 48H, 76H, 100H
Getzen 1050
Holton 65, 67
King 2B, 2B+, 3B
Martin Committee, Urbie
Olds Recording, Studio, Super, Radio
Reynolds Argenta
Yamaha 651, 653, 691, 695, 697

Or you could go for a good student horn:

Conn Director
King Tempo 606,
Yamaha 354 (preferred)

I have played 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in Big Band on a Holton 67 (Stratodyne), Martin Committee, Martin Imperial, King 2B, and Conn 40H. All straight tenors, 0,485"-0.500"

Check our Classifieds, visit Dillon Music in New Jersey, or contact Forum Member DJ Kennedy (active on the Facebook Chat) for sources.

All great, great choices; Getzen doesn't make it anymore, but their Eterna 1050 model used to be their answer to the King 3b, in .508 bore, before it was consigned to their intermediate line with the introduction of the 3508 model. You can probably find one used around. I bought one in the late 90's and used it as a daily driver while teaching high school jazz. After I retired the horn had a lot of sentimental value, so I had it refurbished and scratch finished. It's still a sizzler!

[hornado]

So what's the deal with Reynolds having a different mouthpiece shank size, is it on all of them?

[OneTon]

In the limited experience I have had with Reynolds trombones, I neve encountered one that required a unique mouthpiece. 88H trombones are the culprits for that and I don’t see them in Bruce’s list. Doug Bert at Brass Exxhange has some examples of the suggestions offered here, including a Bach 12.

[hornado]

I'm a chronic researcher and rabbit hole follower, and I also always end up with an itch to have instruments that are a bit unique or uncommon.

I found a 6h in really nice shape that looks really interesting, but it's from the late 20s. A Reynolds 70 with a sterling silver bell that is beautiful. And I've developed an intrigue for the Conn 44h.

I've also a few 3b's I'm looking at too though.

[BGuttman]

A Conn 44H is a nice horn if you don't have to match other trombones. It has a very thick metal bell and no bell rim. It tends to play a bit odd. I've used on in Dixieland and someone else used one in a Theater Orchestra (one trombone). Also, for some reason they seem to go for relatively high prices.

If you want an odd horn that will blend in better with modern instruments, find a Conn 40H. It's a TIS horn, 0.500" bore, "Ballroom" bell (it's set a bit closer to your face than most trombones, so 3rd position is actually at or a little beyond the bell rim).

[Posaunus]

So what's the deal with Reynolds having a different mouthpiece shank size, is it on all of them?

Don't know about "all of them" but I had a very nice classic-era Reynolds Contempora Model 35 (Cleveland, 1958) that definitely had a different size mouthpiece receiver. Slightly oversize, so most small-shank mouthpieces would drop too far in (almost to their exterior cups). Reynolds mouthpieces would (of course) fit perfectly, since their shanks were matched to the trombone's mouthpiece receiver. I found a few other mouthpieces that would also work O.K. (some larger-cup Denis Wick and Schilke, and a Neil Sanders that I came across).

[ithinknot]

I'm a chronic researcher and rabbit hole follower, and I also always end up with an itch to have instruments that are a bit unique or uncommon. ... And I've developed an intrigue for the Conn 44h.

Fair enough. The 44H (at least the one I owned) is a great instrument, and I think Bruce is somewhat underselling it - I'm not sure what 'odd' means in this context.

It's certainly not what you might think it is; it's not a Dorsey/ballad horn by any means, and the sound has a real baritonal quality (by which I mean vocal register, not the saxhorn), most of which has to do with the surprisingly large gooseneck and tuning slide taper, but in terms of response and intonation I found it very easy and straightforward.

But (and it's a big but about which I cannot lie): ergonomics are an issue. The slide is incredibly narrow (still the smallest on the Slide Widths thread), which was what ruled it out for me. Also, the angling of the front bell brace puts your left thumb a long way back. There's a contoured gusset in that corner that is itself quite comfortable, but the span required is still very wide. I have big hands and even so often found it easier to leave the thumb running up the gooseneck. Unless you're very slight and have a perfectly centered embouchure I'd advise against buying blind.

[hornado]

But (and it's a big but about which I cannot lie): ergonomics are an issue. The slide is incredibly narrow (still the smallest on the Slide Widths thread), which was what ruled it out for me. Also, the angling of the front bell brace puts your left thumb a long way back. There's a contoured gusset in that corner that is itself quite comfortable, but the span required is still very wide. I have big hands and even so often found it easier to leave the thumb running up the gooseneck. Unless you're very slight and have a perfectly centered embouchure I'd advise against buying blind.

That could be problematic then. I have quite small hands with short fingers.

Any thoughts on the 20s Conn 6h? It has a lock nut but soldered stockings. 7.5" bell instead of the usual 8".

[OneTon]

Any thoughts on the 20s Conn 6h? It has a lock nut but soldered stockings. 7.5" bell instead of the usual 8".

I have an ancient 0.460 inch bore Holton (?) with soldered stockings. I think the inner slide stockings tend to “scrape” off slide lubricant. If you are insatiably curious or collecting it might be okay. I prefer to focus my attention and energy on the music. My King 2B is on the lower end of what I care to tolerate. For a horn that I take to gigs, I prefer one piece inner slides. One horn with soldered stockings is enough.

[goldendomer04]

I have a King 3bf Siversonic I will be selling soon. I was going to ask $1500 shipped. PM me if you are interested.

Thanks!

[imsevimse]

I haven't played in a few years and I'm wanting to get back into playing. Mostly jazz/bigband/funk etc... as wind band and orchestra are reserved for my other love (Horn).

Budget around $1000ish. For years I played on a sliver plated Conn Director student model that has seen better days. I'm not sure the specs, but I feel like it was a really small bore. I kinda liked how zingy it could get when pushed but maybe want something that can also warm up a bit more if needed.

After reading around and looking at what's available out there currently I'm considering:
Conn 6h
King 3B (F or no?)
Selmer Bolero (haven't found any examples of sound but from reading a bit easier than 3B?)

Thoughts? Something else I should consider?

You have done a good research. All those horns are very good and can be found cheap on eBay. I think the Conn 3 is a very good mouthpiece too. If you still have that then use it, if not you could try a Bach 6 3/4C or a Yamaha Nils Landgren signature. They are about the same size, just a tad larger rim. They are my favorite mouthpieces on small bore trombones.

/Tom

[hornado]

I have a King 3bf Siversonic I will be selling soon. I was going to ask $1500 shipped. PM me if you are interested.

Thanks!

PMd

[bassbone]

I'm just replying to this thread to say I've got an Olds Studio for sale in the classified section that I'm only asking $500 for.

I'd probably want a chem clean and slide alignment looked at before I used it as a daily driver, but the horn plus shipping and a bit of maintenance would come in well below your budget.

[hornado]

Appreciate the offers and all of the suggestions. I pulled the trigger on a 2b silversonic.

Only thing is, I can't find my old conn 3 mouthpiece after several moves. Any suggestions? Should I just get another of the same?

[OneTon]

Under the circumstances it might be just as well to obtain a Bach 6 1/2 AL, Bach 7C, or Bach 11C. Faxx makes excellent copies of Bach Mount Vernon mouthpieces in 6 1/2 AL and 7C at very reasonable prices. They’re available at The Horn Guys and other places. If you are never going to play anything but jazz a Bach or Faxx 12C might work for you.

After the first chair KC symphony player switched me off of a Conn 3, in 57 years I have seen one guy playing a Conn 3 on a Conn 88H. He sounded good on it. I don’t know that I would start searching for a Conn 3 like Indiana Jones chasing the Lost Ark of the Covenant. Crisafulli had all of his university students play Schilke 47 mouthpieces at least until they could hit high e on it.

Alistair Kay recommended the Schilke 47 as a good mouthpiece for Yamaha 697Z/897Z trombones which were based on King 2B trombones. His personal mouthpiece was very close to a Bach 11C. For what it is worth, Ian McDougall’s advice was to find a (preferably good mainstream) mouthpiece and stick with it. McDougall’s mouthpiece is close to a Bach 11C and is available under the Marcinkiewicz label at Mouthpiece Express.

Alistair Kay was a consultant for the 697/897 trombones and Ian McDougall plays a 697. Doug Elliott can provide you with a good mouthpiece as well.

[Posaunus]

Appreciate the offers and all of the suggestions. I pulled the trigger on a 2B Silversonic.

Only thing is, I can't find my old Conn 3 mouthpiece after several moves. Any suggestions? Should I just get another of the same?

So many mouthpieces that will work well on a King 2B. Conn 3 is not the Holy Grail (though I play a Conn 3 on a Conn 30H trombone and sometimes on a Conn 6H), and may not be the best for you.

If you stick with Bach pieces, you could try a 7C, 11C, 6¾C, 6½A, 9 ...
I prefer Schilke to Bachs - e.g., Schilke 47.
Readily available: Yamaha 47 or 48 - or best yet a Yamaha Nils Landgren (nice replacement for a Conn 3).
My current faves (they feel good on my chops) are Marcinkiewicz, such as ET2, ET3, ET4, 11.

And many more that others will be happy to advocate that you try!

By the way, the mouthpiece that was supplied with my 1958 King 2B was a King M21. Sort of rare now, and a little small for many "modern" trombonists.

[Macbone1]

I have a great looking Holton 65 in silver-plate, decent slide. Those can really sizzle but are versatile if you match the right mouthpiece. I once covered a euphonium solo on mine! Priced well below your 1000 dollar budget. No case.

[Kdr152004]

Maybe consider a Getzen 300 series.

[HermanGerman]

Why a SilverSonic? Very strange idea, an instrument for gear freaks or lead players,but it doesn´t help...get an older KIng 3B and a medium sized mouthpiece 7C, 11C...

[Macbone1]

Never liked Silversonics much myself - thinner yellow brass bells are more responsive. Save your money.

[hornado]

Strange comments after I've already purchased it.

[greenbean]

The OP said he "pulled the trigger" so there is no point in telling him not to buy a Silversonic. Many players like them, me included.

[imsevimse]

The single 3b Silversonic I have is a good one. Nothing wrong with them. Nothing wrong with a 2b silversonic either. You probably have a good horn.

/Tom

[hornado]

I'll find out today.

I got a couple of mouthpieces in today. Dusted off the pBone and tried them out. My first impression:

Faxx 6.5AL: Felt a little bigger than what I'm used to, but overall I like the fat tone. Higher register took a bit more effort than I'm used to.

Yamaha Nils Langren: Does indeed feel more like my conn 3 did. Higher register easier. Tone overall a bit brighter and bitier, also a bit less stable I think, but hard to say with unexercized chops and a plastic trombone.

We'll see how they feel in the 2b.

[Posaunus]

Hornado, I expect you'll like your 2B SilverSonic. I still play a 1958 brass 2B, and for a while played a wonderful 3B SilverSonic. FIne trombones. Don't know why folks don't appreciate them. I bet it will work well with the Nils Landgren.
Good luck. Enjoy!

[hornado]

First impression, I'm amazed at the dark tone such a small bore instrument has. My chops are not letting me play too much yet. Will have to play some more tomorrow.

[hornado]

I had a visit with my nephew this weekend who teaches at a college and has a few trombones at his disposal. I compared and contrasted with a Getzen Eterna, Bach (not sure what model), Conn 48H, and I prefer the King I bought. So I'm happy about that. He told me to let him know if I decide to let it go, lol. He thought I sounded best on both the King and Getzen.

I also tried a few mouthpieces, a Bach 11c, Bach 7, a JJ Johnson something or another, and a Conn 3. Surprise, he thought I sounded best on the Conn 3, and of course it was the most comfortable for me. So I guess I'm on the hunt. He let me keep the 11c which I do prefer over the 6.5AL and Nils Landgren.

And today I happened to have my King at the office took a few quick photos in the studio.

[BGuttman]

Something wrong with your photos. They all show up as "Do not Enter" symbols

[hornado]

Something wrong with your photos. They all show up as "Do not Enter" symbols

They should show now. I tried to make life easy, but that's never the case.

[domernuc]

Why not a Holton TR160. My son is selling his on Reverb. It is a very flexible instrument that is too bright or ponderously dark, has an open f-attachment, and is only a slight stretch at $1200. I found it to be pleasant to play. Compared to my Bach 42BO it has a somewhat lighter tone and is somewhat easier to hold for people with smaller hands due to the positioning of the trigger lever. I've never understood why the Holton doesn't come up more often as a high-quality instrument at a very accessible price point.

[hornado]

Why not a Holton TR160. My son is selling his on Reverb. It is a very flexible instrument that is too bright or ponderously dark, has an open f-attachment, and is only a slight stretch at $1200. I found it to be pleasant to play. Compared to my Bach 42BO it has a somewhat lighter tone and is somewhat easier to hold for people with smaller hands due to the positioning of the trigger lever. I've never understood why the Holton doesn't come up more often as a high-quality instrument at a very accessible price point.

Appreciate it, but I found something. Scroll back a few posts for details.

[hyperbolica]

I had a visit with my nephew this weekend who teaches at a college and has a few trombones at his disposal. I compared and contrasted with a Getzen Eterna, Bach (not sure what model), Conn 48H, and I prefer the King I bought...

That's a beauty to be sure. Great horns. Good choice. Can't go wrong with that. Congrats.

[imsevimse]

Very nice photos. Are you a pro photographer?

/Tom

[MrHCinDE]

That's a beautiful horn, excellently captured by your photography.

[afugate]

Silversonic.
Looks like the OP scored a great deal if their budget was $1,000.
--Andy in OKC

[hornado]

Silversonic.
Looks like the OP scored a great deal if their budget was $1,000.
--Andy in OKC

I stretched a bit. $1500 for the curious. I've already got two people calling dibs if I ever sell, so I'm pretty comfortable with what I paid.

I do some photography, but moreso video. I just bummed off a lighting setup for another shoot that was later in the day and snapped some photos with my phone.

[afugate]

Silversonic.
Looks like the OP scored a great deal if their budget was $1,000.
--Andy in OKC

I stretched a bit. $1500 for the curious. I've already got two people calling dibs if I ever sell, so I'm pretty comfortable with what I paid.

I do some photography, but moreso video. I just bummed off a lighting setup for another shoot that was later in the day and snapped some photos with my phone.

The horn appears to be in great shape, so $1,500 is still a good deal.

Welcome back to the trombone world!

--Andy in OKC