Classic alto models

[Chatname]

Which alto trombones designed 1900-2000 are considered to be the best ones or are most sought after? Any less known jewels?
I have personally played a good Yamaha, a great Lätsch and a fine Conn 36 during my career, but am curious about other designs, particularly vintage ones.
Any input appreciated!

[Matt K]

We’re the Glassl altos designed in that period? Those are probably some of the most coveted. Not to mention rare as hens teeth

[GabrielRice]

As Matt suggests, I think the obvious answer is the Glassl altos, which I believe were the model for the Yamaha.

I have a good friend who is an excellent alto player and keeps two in the rotation. He uses a Bach alto for the very lightest repertoire in which he wants the lightest, most focused, most trumpety sound (and he knows the intonation quirks such that his intonation is excellent on it). For many years his bigger alto, used for most full orchestra playing, was an Elkhart Conn (35H?) with tuning in the slide. A couple of years ago he replaced that with a Glassl alto he had always loved that belonged to another friend who passed away.

I have another good friend with a Courtois alto, probably from the 80s or 90s. I love the way he sounds on it - lighter and clearer than the Yamaha, bigger than a Bach.

[CalgaryTbone]

I thought the Yamaha's were copied from an old Latsch. The Glassl's have a different wrap to the tubing, with a longer tuning slide. The old Conn is indeed a 35H. There were some Courtois altos that were produced in my student years (late 70's) that were becoming popular as affordable and easy-playing. Not too many people played alto yet at that time though, so I think they disappeared until more recently, when a new model was produced. I remember the old version as being quite small, like the Bach but maybe closer to tenor proportions? The newer ones look like they have a bore that is closer to the Yamaha, and I've heard good things about them. That newer model would fit in the OP's original question. I think David Findlayson made complimentary comments about those horns, saying he had suggested them to students. The Edwards alto was also from that time period.

Jim Scott

[harrisonreed]

The courtois has bad ergonomics. It was kind of stuffy

[Chatname]

Thank you!
I forgot about the Glassl, I know it well. The Bach 39 however I’ve only play tested, a long time ago. I don’t see old ones showing up; were any made early on (NY, MV)? Or was it designed during the corporation years?
Also, I know nothing about the Conn 35H and have never played it nor seen anyone else do, and there doesn’t seem to be so much talk about them, unlike the Elkhart tenors and basses. Less sought after? How do they play? Bigger than Bach obviously, from what Gabriel wrote above. Are there many of them out there, or are they rare?

[BGuttman]

The Conn 35H was popular among American symphonic 1st trombonists for a long time. Back then you didn't buy an alto trombone until you got the symphony gig, and I don't remember any of my trombone friends wanting an alto when we were kids.

[Chatname]

So obviously quite few were built, and they are hard to find?
For natural reasons it seems that vintage altos is predominantly a German phenomenon?

[CalgaryTbone]

Olds made some altos, including some F altos. There were a couple of them on "the wall" at Dillons once when I was back visiting the NYC area.

JS

[BGuttman]

The Olds altos used to come with alto horn mouthpieces (basically an oversize trumpet mouthpiece). If you wanted to use a trombone mouthpiece on it, you would need to have the shank turned down.

[Kbiggs]

I remember that someone took over Glassl—one of his craftsmen?—and started making pretty much the same alto under his name.

[Matt K]

Adams.

[hornbuilder]

I remember that someone took over Glassl—one of his craftsmen?—and started making pretty much the same alto under his name.

Markus Leuchter. Fabulous instruments. Certainly in the same league as his Master, Herr Glassl.

[imsevimse]

I think the Bach 39 alto is modeled after an old European, french Selmer alto. It's what I've heard. Can someone confirm?
The Bach 39 was the recommended alto in the 80ies in Stockholm. I guess the Conn 34h became popular later here. Since it was early the Bach 39 is among those that are 'more classic'. In the 80ies not many students wanted their own alto, or could not afford one. I did not know any other trombone player at the time who owned an alto. I guess that's why I had gigs on alto. The college had one alto you could have on loan. I think most learned on that one.

[Chatname]

About the vintage Elkhart conn altos: what was their design like? TIS? Alloys? Different versions? Playing character?
Also curious about the olds! Any more info on those?

[CalgaryTbone]

There was a very big Olds E flat alto - 8" bell? I played it at Dillons - played actually quite well, but it was probably not going to work in a lot of situations. Very dark sound. The F alto was the opposite - very small and I think Bruce is right about it having a really small mouthpiece and receiver in the slide. I think it was possible to use a small shank trombone mouthpiece that had been shaved down, but I wouldn't swear to that.

The Conn 35H has pretty much the same specs as the new 34/36H's. Something like a .485/.500 dual bore, and yellow brass with a nickel crook and oversleeves. It has tuning in the slide. The proportions are different, so the bell is longer/slide is shorter. 4th position is at or before the bell, and 7th position is pretty iffy. Also, I think they did a good job of getting the overtone series to be better on the newer ones - the 35H required a lot more adjustments, making it a "project" to get back up to speed anytime that the horn had been in the case for a couple of weeks or more. I tried a Conn alto once at the home of a guy in the NY area who I was buying an 8H from. It had a red bell - I've never seen one before or since. Must have been a special order from the factory. I remember him pointing out that it didn't have a serial number - just a single digit (7, I believe). Maybe a proto-type that never got developed? Otherwise, it looked like the other 35H's that I've seen.

Jim Sott

[hornbuilder]

Miles Anderson had an old Conn alto. I don't know the number of it, but it was very small bore, all yellow brass, tuning in the bell. He sounded stunning on it!

[harrisonreed]

You used to able to special order a 36H with a red bell. This was back when the Bb attachment came with the longer tuning section. Not sure why you would want the red bell, but cool anyways.

Here it is, side by side. The guy who made this page says that he thought the Bb valve was too long so he cut it to the length of the normal, newer 36H on the left. I suspect it was because he was trying to tune the Eb to the bumpers ...

http://36h.net/page/apos/category/music ... e/36h.html

36h.jpg

[CalgaryTbone]

Miles Anderson had an old Conn alto. I don't know the number of it, but it was very small bore, all yellow brass, tuning in the bell. He sounded stunning on it!

Just checked the Conn Loyalist site: there was a 16H/17H (Low pitch, high pitch?) alto made from 1919-1948. Small bore (.459) and bell - maybe tuning in the slide (can't tell from the picture). If it was, I'm guessing that the tuning section was at the end of the slide, which isn't in the picture. Bell doesn't look like it has a tuning slide.

The 35H was much later - forgot to check the dates, but I think 1960's. I didn't see any others, but there may have been one or two models that didn't make the list.

JS

[Chatname]

It seems that for obvious reasons (the demand being so low) there was no golden age of alto trombone design in Elkhart, NY, Mount Vernon or elsewhere. I suppose the best vintage altos were built in the great German tradition. And maybe we live in a golden age of future classics now, with all the wonderful altos being built today, both in Europe and the US!
Thank you all for your information, most appreciated!

[elmsandr]

Thank you!
I forgot about the Glassl, I know it well. The Bach 39 however I’ve only play tested, a long time ago. I don’t see old ones showing up; were any made early on (NY, MV)? Or was it designed during the corporation years?
Also, I know nothing about the Conn 35H and have never played it nor seen anyone else do, and there doesn’t seem to be so much talk about them, unlike the Elkhart tenors and basses. Less sought after? How do they play? Bigger than Bach obviously, from what Gabriel wrote above. Are there many of them out there, or are they rare?

There were MV Bach altos, though they were model 1 and 2, not the 39. I don’t know the difference, but I do regret passing on a beautiful model 1 a couple of decades ago. Not that I would have any reason to play it, but at least then I’d know where it is…

Cheers,
Andy

[Trombonjon]

Any thoughts on the Slokar altos..
anyone?