Quality of "B-Stock" Instruments

[zephlox]

Has anyone had experiences with the instruments "B-Stock" instruments that Quinn the Eskimo sells? The prices seem appealing but I was wondering if anyone could speak to the quality of these instruments, especially since I know Bach instruments tend to be very inconsistent in their performance.

[BGuttman]

If Quinn (Matt) says it looks like new it looks like new.

B stock are instruments with small imperfections, some that you will have to look really hard to see. Rarely do they ever affect playability. You probably will have to depend on Quinn for warranty issues, bot I've never heard anything bad about him.

Open Box instruments are ones that have been used for demonstrations but are otherwise new.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Something to keep in mind about brass instruments……

The average adult musician has a dent or visually noticeable scratch on their instrument within the first month. The average elementary band student will have a dent or scratch on the instrument within the first few days. I can back that second statement up with 35 years of teaching experience!

My point is that B-stock and open box instruments are an excellent option for purchasing an instrument. Why pay the additional money for a “brand new” instrument when the new instrument will have those same imperfections in a very short time?

[OneTon]

Manufacturers consistently pass defects on to retailers. Retailers bring many instruments up to a “new” condition and most often sell the instrument (or car) as new. What determines what is b stock and what is a stock ends up with a Venn diagram. Some defects that are repaired might be considered “major” such as something that affects intonation. As long as the instrument or car has never been sold it is still a stock, as repaired. Up to an undefined point where attorneys and tort law get involved.

Some retailers will sell an instrument with a solder run as new. Some sell it as b stock. The former Is not considered unethical unless the instrument has been sold to someone. In fact, the consumer ia better off if the brown stuff under the factory lacquer is left alone. The first lacquer job is best at corrosion prevention and thinner lacquer is considered to be more desirable by most players than thick.

I haven’t purchased anything from Quinn. I have never seen anything bad about him. If he does send you a Dizzie Gillespie trombone he will take it back. As a consumer I would be reluctant to return a b stock instrument with scratches or even very small dents (not in the slide) unless it was truly excessive.

B stock defects should not affect form, fit, or function.

[Finetales]

I had a B-stock euphonium for 11 years, and only noticed what presumably made it "B-stock" when I got it looked over to sell recently and the tech pointed out marks that indicated the bell was repaired at some point. I never would have noticed otherwise.

[Burgerbob]

Just remember that that B-stock moniker can refer to little tiny things that most people don't care about, or actual problems that prevented the first owner from playing or enjoying the instrument fully. Caveat empor!

[MBeal]

I've bought a few B-stock instruments over the years and honestly I couldn't tell the difference from brand spanking new.

I've never purchased from Quinn, but based on his reputation I wouldn't hesitate to do so.

[ZacharyThornton]

I work at a retailer and I play test everything that comes in. I often return products either because of cosmetic defects that I would not pass on to a customer, flaws in the construction that are a problem or will lead to a problem, or flaws with the instrument that lead to it not playing well enough for me to be comfortable selling it.
The QC from all the companies I deal with has steadily gotten worst and post Covid it is tragic.
I was recently told that what I would send back used to be “rerun” at the factory. (Maybe it never was that way). Now those instruments are being sold as B and C stock to other vendors.
If that is true (and I have it from several reliable sources), I would not buy B or C stock instruments unless the person selling them puts work into those horns to get them up to par. I believe Quinn does this with a well known and respected repair tech.
Never buy any brand until you play it.

[Mamaposaune]

I have only had 2 experiences with "B"stock, or open box. The first was a Blessing B-7 that my husband ordered from WW+BW, probably 25 years ago. It had a minor dent that had been repaired, and was barely noticeable.
A year ago, in a moment of curiosity mixed with boredom, I ordered a Bach large-bore intermediate (42B copy,TB-300?) from Quinn the Eskimo. It is what it is, but the slide and valve worked amazingly well right out of the case, and I could find no cosmetic flaws. I was pleasantly surprised at how well it played. A little stuffy below low Bb, but all in all an easy to play, responsive student horn.

[tbonesullivan]

I would definitely trust instruments coming from Quinn the Eskimo. What they say can be believed, and it's a great way to save some money on a horn. A lot of the larger retailers also sell more brass instruments than you would think, and they get returned, and then they are "open box", because they can't be sold as new anymore. Some ma also be "blemished", which is somewhere a bit better than "demo" or "B-stock". If the instrument comes with a case, it can be a scratch or defect on the case, and unfortunately the larger retailers rarely say what exactly the reason is.

Sweetwater just got into wind instruments again, and when they list an open box with any issues, they photograph the whole instrument and show where the issue is.

Now, my recent experience was a "blemished" YBL-830 Yamaha bass from WWBW, which as far as I can tell, has no issues. I went over the instrument completely, and saw nothing. It works great, plays great, and I ended up saving over 1000 off the cost of a new one.

[walldaja]

I bought a "B stock" instrument from Quinn. It came in what appeared to be the original factory wrapping. Once I opened the case the trombone itself was still clad in plastic and desiccant packets. All original Yamaha factory documents were included. I've had the horn for several years now and I have yet to find any imperfection in it.

I would buy a B stock again from Quinn if I had an unlimited budget and more room to store things!

[imsevimse]

B-Stock can be anything. I bought a new Kanstul 1570 from Thomann and paid 30% less than full price I expected it to have a scratch or maybe a small dent in the bell. When it arrived it had a big dent in the bell and a dent in the slide that made it unplayable. Since I have tools I mended the trombone and got it back to almost new. A small trace of the dent in the slide is all that remains, but it does not affect playability at all. I think the errors that came with this trombone should have been declared, but it only said "'could have trace of use". After this I do not know who to trust (if not Thomann), but since I could fix the horn myself to almost new I was still happy with the buy. After this I only have bought used horns from friends or from a shop where I can try.

I had some issues with Quinn's business way back when he started his company. He bought of Ebay the same horns I bid on and then when he won he immediately flipped them. I bid against him on several horns, some I won but most he won. Later I did buy a rare horn from him that was not as described. He offered me to send it back but I choose to keep it because the shipping and troubles was not worth it. I had a tech repair the horn and got some money back from Quinn to cover that. I was very disappointed at that time because the many pictures he (or his tech) took still did not show that obvious dent in the inner slide. I suspected that was intended but of course it could have been an error that someone indeed missed that dent. He did apologize and also offered to take the horn back. That might have been an option if I lived in US but not from where I live. I understand he since have learned his lesson and now check his horns more thoroughly. This was more than 10 years from now and since he has had many pleased customers and also sell more of the "newer" horns and not so much of the "beaters". I think he has learned and can be trusted. Errors do happen.

/Tom

[timbone]

B stock is for a reason. It doesn’t work. Someone will have to do work on it to make it A stock playable bit not cosmetic. If it is cosmetic, it is show stock. Years ago there was A-D stock- for c and d- bring your tools and soldering. If you plan to buy B stock, for all means please don’t expect it to be A stock!

[modelerdc]

I've bought several B stock instruments and have not been disappointed. Just make sure that you buy from a reputable dealer, and that the defects are either minor or just cosmetic. A good dealer will allow returns if you are not satisfied. Having said that, I look for large discounts, because if the discount for a B stock is small, then it makes more sense to just buy the regular new item.

[PaulT]

I was not aware Quinn sold "B-Stock" (whatever that is). I have been aware of Quinn, his store and his ebay sales, for several years now and I have never seen him list a horn for sale as "B-Stock" (whatever that is).

Quinn sells new instruments, lightly used instruments that are in lovely condition, and instruments described as "Open Box". The definition of "Open Box" instruments may a little hard to pin down precisely. but generally, they are store/dealer demos, show horns that in some cases may have only been tooted once or twice, and in some cases they may even be untouched factory horns that became deemed as overstock inventory that Quinn was able to pick up for cost.

One thing "Open Box" does not mean is a blemished horn that didn't pass factory quality control and was dumped into a shadow secondary market. The "Open Box" horns Quinn sells are top grade factory instrument with full factory warranty.

"B-Stock"? Is that even an actual term that means anything? Does Yamaha designate horns as "B-Stock" and then release them as such into the market via secondary market of non-official dealers I don't think so. Does Bach or anyone else? I have never seen a horn for sale listed as a "B-Stock" anywhere at anytime.

[Goten56]

I bought a King 2280 from him two years ago, and it's perfect.

[JohnL]

"B-Stock"? Is that even an actual term that means anything?

Can't say whether it applies to the musical instrument division, but here is Yamaha's definition of A-, B-, and C-stock as regards electronics:
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/faq/audi ... /2534.html

and Thomann's definition of B-stock as regards musical instruments:
https://www.thomannmusic.com/faq_questi ... ducts.html

It seems that there are as many definitions of B-stock as there are companies selling same, but (for the most part), one element that seems to be constant is that they are fully functional items that, for whatever reason, cannot be sold as "new".

[Burgerbob]

You get what you pay for. Quinn has good stuff, but it's also cheaper than new for a reason. Caveat empor.

[modelerdc]

Yes, B stock can mean different things, minor defects, returned items, or even new items marked as B stock to get around the minimum advertised price limits imposed by manufacturers. I should also add that buying B stock should probably done only be experienced buyers who know what to look for.

[imsevimse]

Thomann says: "B-Stock with Full Warranty
Return that may have slight traces of use."

An unplayable instrument with a big dent in the bell and another in the slide that makes it impossible to play is slight trace of use to them.

/Tom

[Matt K]

I’d be weary of b stock items but that by no means is a universal standard. I have a b stock tuning slide now from Shires (…I think maybe it was one I previously owned) because of an imperfection in the lacquer. We’ll, my tuning slide is now unlaquered because I tend to prefer that so it’s essentially “A” stock now!

[musicofnote]

I've bought a few B-stock instruments over the years and honestly I couldn't tell the difference from brand spanking new.

I've never purchased from Quinn, but based on his reputation I wouldn't hesitate to do so.

I bought my Yamaha Xeno 822g from Quinn. It had been a demo instrument and has been flawless. Very happy with it and his service.

[PaulT]

Within the same month, I purchased a new Yamaha 620 and an "open box/mint" Yamaha 640 from Quinn.

They both came in identical boxes (I was going to say "exactly identical" for emphasis, but it is unnecessary, especially as I just did say it). The condition of the box, the amount of tape, everything, the same.

Inside the box, both cases had the same "suspension" padding and were wrapped in plastic that was sealed with tape.

Included in the case of each was a sealed packet that included the warranty card, some sealed maintenance stuff (oil, wipes), and a welcome to Yamaha trombones instruction/use guide. All untouched.)

The horns were wrapped and had the same blue translucent tape protecting portions of the slide lock and tenon.

The horns themselves, flawless with smooth slides right out the gate.

I have returned stuff. I never get the packaging back to factory snuff. But both of these horns arrived as if they were fresh from the factory. My eyes still work fine. There were no finish flaws or bubbles, no smearing of inscription, no missing lacquer or chrome, both slides worked like glass, both had same sour notes (ok, that one is on me and I own it).

I have since purchased two more horns from Quinn, and there was nothing "B" or "C" about either, A+ all the way!

(and without letting too much of my bias show, if Yamaha perchance (I doubt it) sold a "B" horn, its build quality would be better than some builders "A" horns).


* I am not related to Quinn, have never met Quinn, do not own stock in Quinn incorporated. I am just grateful. I purchased the first horn with trepidation, lots of trepidation. I am not an ebayer. Not at all. Much worry, little trust. But, the only thing now that would ever, ever, keep me from buying another horn from Quinn is my wife (and my respect for her amazing ability to spot unnecessary indulgences before I can).

[PaulT]

Ok, I am a avowed Quinster. But, I have paid attention here, and there are great sellers here with deserved great reputations, such as Greenbean, whom I have corresponded with and would buy from with a calm trusting heartbeat, wife and remaining sense permitting.

[PaulT]

(in a conversation with Greenbean, after listening to all my "parameters", he told me the Quinn horn I was looking at was probably a better fit for me than the one he was selling. My respect and trust shot up like a rocker.)

[quinntheeskimo]

I'd like to thank everyone here for all the kind words! We work really hard to provide great horns at great prices to great people, and it warms my heart to hear so many people reporting good experiences with us!

We have rebranded to The Mighty Quinn Brass and Winds now, as we have become aware that the word 'Eskimo' is problematic in some cultures and we have never wanted to offend anyone-we just want to provide great gear.

And as a trombone player myself it is particularly important to me that my brethren are happy with their horns that they get from us, so I hope everyone is aware that we have an unconditional 30-day return policy on everything we sell. If you're unhappy, send it back!

I wanted to remind everyone that we have an ongoing promotion for trombone chat members-take 15% off any of our used, demo, or open box instruments (shown here)

https://www.brassandwinds.com/collectio ... -trombones

with the discount code TROMBONECHAT15 at checkout. And pass the savings on to your students, friends, and colleagues as well. Happy playing!

[Cotboneman]

I'd like to thank everyone here for all the kind words! We work really hard to provide great horns at great prices to great people, and it warms my heart to hear so many people reporting good experiences with us!

We have rebranded to The Mighty Quinn Brass and Winds now, as we have become aware that the word 'Eskimo' is problematic in some cultures and we have never wanted to offend anyone-we just want to provide great gear.

And as a trombone player myself it is particularly important to me that my brethren are happy with their horns that they get from us, so I hope everyone is aware that we have an unconditional 30-day return policy on everything we sell. If you're unhappy, send it back!

I wanted to remind everyone that we have an ongoing promotion for trombone chat members-take 15% off any of our used, demo, or open box instruments (shown here)

https://www.brassandwinds.com/collectio ... -trombones

with the discount code TROMBONECHAT15 at checkout. And pass the savings on to your students, friends, and colleagues as well. Happy playing!

I've purchased three horns from you over the past two years, and I must say that I have been very happy with every one of them. The quality and playability of them have been superb. Thank you for providing such a great source for budget-minded semi-pro and amateur players such as myself.

[PaulT]

Hey, Hi, cousin Quinn!

(whoops)