Community Wind Band appropriate trombone

[slidingaround43]

Hello, I'm a short-time lurker who has played on and off for about 30 years. I majored in music education through 7 semesters on trombone before changing majors. I sold the nice Bach 42BO I bought new in 1995 way back in the early 2000's, and have had a Conn Director and and Cleveland Superior since that time that I have inconsistently played for my own pleasure in private.

I'm looking to get back into more serious playing and found there's a great community wind band that operates about 10 miles from my new house. It's does require auditions, and I feel I have the knowledge and ability to do well, but lack the proper horn to prepare.

Back when I played, the Bach 42B was the preferred instrument for wind bands. I loved mine, but I also played a few Conn 88's back then, and they were comparable, if not a little brighter or less focused than my Bach felt on the ones I played.

I've been looking at Bach's and Conn's and even some Yamaha's now, but what other .547 horns are out there either older or new that I could be looking at. I've seen some Getzen models, some Yamaha's (400's and 600's used) some Jupiter's, and a brand called JP Rath that have .547 models around my price range (~$1500).

I'm looking for user reviews for what works well for you in a wind band setting that I may find in my budget.

[BGuttman]

I would suggest a medium or large bore trombone with F-attachment just so you will match in with an audition level band. If you didn't need to audition I would have suggested not to buy anything.

You should be able to find a nice Yamaha with F for a reasonable price. The premium level Xeno is probably above your price point, but used Pro level (600 series) or step up (400 or 500 series) would probably do fine. For large bore I like 648, 682, or 620. Medium bore 646, 684, or 640. The 446 or 448 as well as the 548 are also possibilities.

Other brands that have appeared since you went dormant:

Premium grades: Shires, Edwards, Rath. Probably above your price point now.
Pro grades: Getzen 3000 series, Jupiter XO, Adams

JP-Rath and Wessex are better than most Chinese instruments. Usually good value for money.

Used instruments: Benge 175 (medium) and 190 (large), Conn 79H (medium) and 88H (large), Holton 160 165 150 158 159, Olds Opera. Many others to consider as well.

[Briande]

Good ‘ole King 3B w/f attachment would also do just fine.

[Kingfan]

Also consider a King 4B-F and Benge 165.

[Burgerbob]

Nothing less than a Thein!!

[Finetales]

Nothing less than a Thein!!

Just one???

[Burgerbob]

Nothing less than a Thein!!

Just one???

One at the gig, one in the trunk for a backup, and the rest of the collection at home in the TheinVault.

[hornbuilder]

What are the other players in the group using?

[Trombo]

The good old Bach 36B is well suited to a wind band.

[MrHCinDE]

I quite liked playing the thinwall version of an 88H in windband, i.e. the 88HT or 88HTO. I found it to be a bit nimbler and more resonant at lower dynamics thank the standard 88H, even more so with a 0.525“ slide. It’s also worth trying an LT slide with a Bach 42 or 36, has quite a different blow IMHO.

You might add the Courtois AC 420 and AC 440 to your trial list, should be available used in your budget with a bit of patience.

[spencercarran]

A nice used 36b can be had in your price range and is perfectly suited to community wind band.

[Matt K]

Getzen and Yamaha are probably going to give you the best bang for your proverbial buck. Especially some of the medium bore ones. I’ve seen getzen 700 series for around half your budget. Matt’s recommendation to see what everyone else is playing makes a lot of sense. Lots of people hear with their eyes and may make sense to see if you can find something similar

[slidingaround43]

I would suggest a medium or large bore trombone with F-attachment just so you will match in with an audition level band. If you didn't need to audition I would have suggested not to buy anything.

You should be able to find a nice Yamaha with F for a reasonable price. The premium level Xeno is probably above your price point, but used Pro level (600 series) or step up (400 or 500 series) would probably do fine. For large bore I like 648, 682, or 620. Medium bore 646, 684, or 640. The 446 or 448 as well as the 548 are also possibilities.

Other brands that have appeared since you went dormant:

Premium grades: Shires, Edwards, Rath. Probably above your price point now.
Pro grades: Getzen 3000 series, Jupiter XO, Adams

JP-Rath and Wessex are better than most Chinese instruments. Usually good value for money.

Used instruments: Benge 175 (medium) and 190 (large), Conn 79H (medium) and 88H (large), Holton 160 165 150 158 159, Olds Opera. Many others to consider as well.

This is great info. I've bookmarked a couple of YSL-643's from the 80's-90's I found in my range. They seem to be discontinued so I haven't found much info, even here, on those models. I think it was here that I read that they're heavily inspired by the older Conn 88's from the 80's-90's. Has anyone tried that specific model and could share their experience and how it compares to competing models?

[slidingaround43]

Getzen and Yamaha are probably going to give you the best bang for your proverbial buck. Especially some of the medium bore ones. I’ve seen getzen 700 series for around half your budget. Matt’s recommendation to see what everyone else is playing makes a lot of sense. Lots of people hear with their eyes and may make sense to see if you can find something similar

I was just getting back on to read replies. I just moved to this area and haven't had a chance to meet anyone within the band at the moment. Their season starts in September. They host 3 open practices for all comers, and if you want to continue, you come back and audition for a chair. I'm not sure I'll have a chance before the open auditions to get eyes on what others are using, or I would!

I'll try to check out some Getzen's too. I've been frequenting a few sites in my searches, the Classifieds here, Brass Exchange in St. Louis, The Horn Guys, Brass and Winds, and cautiously watching FB marketplace, ebay, and Reverb, though I'm not sure I trust the description on functionality on those last 3 over the others I listed.

[hyperbolica]

Another vote for Bach 36b. Readily available, long history of satisfied users, lots of repair parts available, still made. Very solid and versatile instruments.

[BGuttman]

The Yamaha 643 was an emulation of the Conn 88H. Identical wrap for the F-attachment. Newer horns use the Schilke inspired wrap with much larger crooks, but not enough slide for an E Pull. The horn was a bit heavier than an 88H, though. I've seen some kids do very well with them.

If you are currently playing on a student horn, a Medium Bore, or even a smallish bore with F is a good change. Going straight to large bore will be a challenge filling the horn -- one you really don't need. One fun instrument to look for is the Yamaha 356 (maybe it's now 456). It's a dual bore 0.500"/0.525" with an F-attachment.

One advantage to a medium bore Bach, Conn, or Yamaha is that the F attachment wrap is identical to their larger bore so people who listen with their eyes won't have alarm bells ring. I can play everything on my Bach 36C (with F) that I can on my Yamaha 682 (large bore) so the size isn't an issue.

[tbonesullivan]

I would also recommend a nice used Bach 36B. You can find them pretty much anywhere, they are a good horn, and if you sell it they retain value. The Closed Wrap is a bit more friendly to community band environments, where people often try to walk behind you and can bump into a longer F attachment.

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

Will be using a Williams 9 once community band starts up again.

[BGuttman]

Will be using a Williams 9 once community band starts up again.

That's something a little tough for the OP to afford. Well above his price point.

[Posaunus]

There are community bands and there are COMMUNITY BANDS! Most are rather low-key and pretty much accept all comers (at least as far as their instruments are concerned). If you only play the 1st trombone charts, you may never need an F-attachment.

There may be other reasons to bring a large-bore tenor (depending on the parts you're playing, your ego, your degree of competitiveness, ...). But the important thing should be (in addition to playing the right notes at the right time - and musically) the sound you create. And in most cases, a medium-bore (e.g., Bach 36B, Conn 79H) would sound - and blend in - just fine. As would a large-bore tenor.

Note that in the decades since you (slidingaround43) - like everyone else then - used a large-bore tenor in 1995, many professional orchestral trombone sections have "downsized" for much of the literature they perform, and often use smaller-bore trombones when appropriate.

Your audition-required community band may have some sort of standard for what instruments are used - if so, you of course should conform. Otherwise you should bring whatever you sound best on.

Good luck!

[Pezza]

Play what you have. If they want you on a bigger, or smaller, horn they should provide it!

I have a Bach 12 & a Bach 36K (plus a King 5B for bass) and can blend with any section. If an MD asks for another horn/size I simply say no.

[RobL]

It may be possible to get a sense of the trombones in use from photos on the band's website. (Maybe you've already checked.) Glad you're getting back into playing!

[Macbone1]

I have a gorgeous B&H Imperial, .523 bore - not only a good choice for band but DESIGNED and BUILT for brass band and concert band by Besson! Bb/F, great valve and a very good slide too. No dents, rot, corrosion, scratches or funky smells! Shoot me an IM and give it a new home. It's the right price.

[Cotboneman]

I had a good JP/Rath open wrap .547 bore horn that was really quite excellent, purchased from The Horn Guys. It plays very Conn-like, and even has the Conn-style narrow slide. I used it in a local wind band here for about four years, until I donated it to the school district that I retired from in 2021. I replaced it with a very fine yellow brass bell Conn 88H, dual bore SL 25/47 slide (I also bought a 47/62 slide later, separately). It's got three lead pipes, so I can configure it to play any part in that band. It's a good blend with the King 3b's and Bach 36's other guys are playing in the group. My configurations were not cheap, but there are other options that have already been brought up. Much depends on what your price point is.

[Goten56]

Take a look at Mackbrass trombones, I think you could make a better deal with a new horn.

[Drombone]

Conn, Bach, Rath, Yam, it really doesn't matter. Just find one you like and play it. It's a community wind band, not the LSO.

PS just kidding. Get a Rath.

[walldaja]

What is more important is your ability to play whatever horn you bring. Not worth bringing that Rath if you sound like a cow giving birth.

[imsevimse]

Will be using a Williams 9 once community band starts up again.

I usually play a Bach 36BO in the Torgny Hansson Wind Orchestra. The Bach 36BO fits the first part very well. The second player often use a .547 sized horn.

Next week I will rehearse with a community band and I might use the William's 9. Good idea!

/Tom

[Bach5G]

Wouldn’t any proper trombone do? No p-bones.

[Ozzlefinch]

Nothing wrong with the M1A1 of trombones: the King 3b.

As others have said, in most community bands it's "run what you brung" for the most part. You can't really go wrong with the 3b- they sound great, durable, affordable on the second-hand market in the price range you stated, etc.

[X200]

Nothing wrong with the M1A1 of trombones

[Vegastokc]

Nothing wrong with the M1A1 of trombones: the King 3b.

Most concise and accurate description of the 3B I ever heard.

[jorymil]

A 3b is like a tank? I'd certainly like to hear you elaborate: I've certainly heard the Swiss Army knife analogy before, but this a new one

[Ozzlefinch]

"M1A1" is a military term for any generic item. Not necessarily a tank. When I say that the King 3b is the M1A1 of trombones, I'm simply stating that it is a rock solid choice for a wide variety of applications at an affordable price and quality.

In military parlance it would be called "Musical Instrument, Brass, Slide Trombone, unit of issue:1 each." Pick one up from the supply sergeant on your way to community band practice:)

[walldaja]

"M1A1" is a military term for any generic item. Not necessarily a tank. When I say that the King 3b is the M1A1 of trombones, I'm simply stating that it is a rock solid choice for a wide variety of applications at an affordable price and quality.

In military parlance it would be called "Musical Instrument, Brass, Slide Trombone, unit of issue:1 each." Pick one up from the supply sergeant on your way to community band practice:)

Got to love the nomenclature of the army!

But you can't go wrong with a 3B.

[Posaunus]

So this thread has been live for several weeks now.
I'm curious if the OP (slidingaround43) ever auditioned for the community band; if so what trombone he brought (was it new to him?); and how it went.

[lupusargentus]

For what it's worth, I've played my Yamaha ysl 643 large bore and my ysl 651 small bore in both community band and community orchestra. Horn choice depended on the piece and the sound the conductor wanted. More zip and volume, large bore, less of both, small bore. It really depends of the group.

[imsevimse]

Quick report!

I choose to play my William's 9 in the community orchestra this Monday. It is a good band that has a lot of retired pros on several important parts. I subbed on first trombone and used my Hammond 13M from start which feels like an oversized Bach 6 1/2 AL. First impression was that the William's 9 was much too dark as a lead in the section. I then changed to my Yamaha Nils Landgren mp. It is a Bach 11C-ish mouthpiece. It gave me a little more edge which I needed. It improved things but still I'd rather use my Bach 36BO. The Bach can take any mouthpiece and I will still be able to have that edge if I want it. I think the parts also often need a larger mouthpiece a lot of the times, I will play that horn at the gig.

I spoke to the conductor that I know very well, and he did not notice anything in the sound when I changed mouthpiece. He did not think the William's 9 was to dark either. I guess I'm completely disqualified to judge my own sound. In my ears the Wolliams 9 was much too dark with the Hammond 13M and still too dark with the Nils Landgren mp, but that was on my side of the bell

At home the Willians 9 is very good when I play classical play-a-long. It is a very good horn but just very different. I will not part with it for anything, but it is not the best fit in a windorcheastra, not for me, but it is okay. It depends upon what the other play in the section.

/Tom