Benge 290 question

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baroquetrombone
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Benge 290 question

Post by baroquetrombone »

Would anyone with one mind measuring the distance between the lower slide tube and the bell? Granted I don't have the best slide grip technique, but my bell is close enough that I smack my fingers on it regularly. I just want to know if it needs a fix or if I want to consider a modification (either to the instrument or my grip) before I start looking for someone to do it.

thanks
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ithinknot
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Re: Benge 290 question

Post by ithinknot »

7/8" on mine, give or take

If the first valve knuckle is wrinkled then things have probably moved. But if there's an obvious grip change that eliminates the problem, then why not just do that?
Monkhouse
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Re: Benge 290 question

Post by Monkhouse »

baroquetrombone wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:06 am Would anyone with one mind measuring the distance between the lower slide tube and the bell? Granted I don't have the best slide grip technique, but my bell is close enough that I smack my fingers on it regularly. I just want to know if it needs a fix or if I want to consider a modification (either to the instrument or my grip) before I start looking for someone to do it.

thanks
This is the second post I've seen recently describing this problem. Can you put your horn together with slightly wider angle between the handslide and bell to give more clearance, or does that make the balance untenable? I think playing the horn long enough would naturally cause you to modify your technique slightly to avoid the bell, and develop muscle memory.
baroquetrombone
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Re: Benge 290 question

Post by baroquetrombone »

7/8" on mine, give or take

If the first valve knuckle is wrinkled then things have probably moved. But if there's an obvious grip change that eliminates the problem, then why not just do that?
Thank you! I haven't actually measured mine, but that seems like a similar distance. As for the grip change, I've been playing for 38yrs. It's a LOT easier to change the instrument. :lol:
Monkhouse wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 11:07 am This is the second post I've seen recently describing this problem. Can you put your horn together with slightly wider angle between the handslide and bell to give more clearance, or does that make the balance untenable? I think playing the horn long enough would naturally cause you to modify your technique slightly to avoid the bell, and develop muscle memory.
Changing the angle doesn't really change the distance, at least not more than a few mm. I'm sure I could get used to it if necessary, and I may if it turns out that it's actually supposed to be this close, but I definitely wanted have it fixed if it's not supposed to be. Pics online of 290s seem to show more room there, but of course it's hard to tell for sure.

This is nowhere near my primary trombone, so it's not like it's a huge deal, but it's also the first time I've ever run into the problem(!)
Crazy4Tbone86
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Re: Benge 290 question

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 »

For me, the distance between the bell rim and the lower outer slide is a big deal! I really do not like it to be 1” or less. I believe the perfect distance is 1 and 5/16”. I can tolerate it wider……up to about 1 and 7/8”. Anything 2” or above just looks and feels strange.

While the wider clearances don’t cause any performance issues for me (I am not a bell toucher) the tighter clearances definitely do for create trouble for me. I am not particularly fond of my fingers catching on the bell as I am moving the slide.

My recommendation to the OP is……take the horn to a tech and tell them the exact clearance that you want the bell rim to lower outer slide to be.
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greenbean
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Re: Benge 290 question

Post by greenbean »

I have handled many trombones with insufficient space between bell rim and slide. Yes, I am capable of changing my grip... but why should I? I can use my preferred grip with a horn that is properly set up. I have had techs add space many times, and I have done this work myself several times - including a few days ago! I like 1.25 to 1.5 inches. :good:
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Crazy4Tbone86
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Re: Benge 290 question

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 »

greenbean wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 12:23 am I have handled many trombones with insufficient space between bell rim and slide. Yes, I am capable of changing my grip... but why should I? I can use my preferred grip with a horn that is properly set up. I have had techs add space many times, and I have done this work myself several times - including a few days ago! I like 1.25 to 1.5 inches. :good:
I’ll say it again…..1 and 5/16 inch is the perfect space (IMHO).
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boneagain
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Re: Benge 290 question

Post by boneagain »

Did you get this horn used?

The 290 is quite heavy relative to the structural integrity of the valve area. School horns that have been snapped to and from the shoulder in horn drills often suffer from different decelleration rates between bell and slide. That suffering is most acute at the valve knuckles.

If the above is a possibility for YOUR horn, you might consider a very careful inspection of the valve area. You might even have a tiny leak. In fixing that a tech could also fix the bell clearance problem.
Crazy4Tbone86
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Re: Benge 290 question

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 »

I have seen quite a few Benge 190F trombones that had the front knuckle of the rotary valve (the one attached to the slide receiver) bent or buckled. It was a vulnerable part of those trombones and many of the King models....probably the metal was just a bit too thin to handle rigorous use in groups like marching bands.

I have not seen the problem in the 290 models, but it is probably because I have seen far fewer of the Benge bass trombones. Also, bass trombones are used less frequently in marching bands and groups that tend to cause more damage to instruments. As boneagain stated, it might be best to have your horn checked because there could be some issues in the slide receiver/front valve area.
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baroquetrombone
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Re: Benge 290 question

Post by baroquetrombone »

I did buy this one used, and it's in great shape but it does have a little bit of evidence of a previous repair or two. That's part of the reason I wanted to see if the bell placement was normal. Along those lines, I measured it last night and it has no more than 3/4' of room. That's pretty close for just about anyone, I'd think.

If I get around to it and can find one locally (I normally take my old basket case trombones to Terry Pierce in NYC, but that's a couple hours away), I'll take it to a tech and see what he says.
boneagain
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Re: Benge 290 question

Post by boneagain »

baroquetrombone wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:34 am I did buy this one used, and it's in great shape but it does have a little bit of evidence of a previous repair or two. That's part of the reason I wanted to see if the bell placement was normal. Along those lines, I measured it last night and it has no more than 3/4' of room. That's pretty close for just about anyone, I'd think.

If I get around to it and can find one locally (I normally take my old basket case trombones to Terry Pierce in NYC, but that's a couple hours away), I'll take it to a tech and see what he says.
Yeah, look for evidence of reflowed solder around the knuckles on BOTH valves.
I was surprised at how much the knuckles could be distorted without forcing the bell brace WAY up into the bell.

I saw one high school horn that had a brace added right across the bottom of BOTH valves. That horn saw a LOT of snap-ups.

I found getting the solder correct in that joint area to be tricky. On my horn I had to unsolder the bell brace to be able to get things back into proper alignment.

If it were me, I'd go to a good tech and focus on fixing the things from the neck tube through the receiver and de-stressing the bell brace. That will PROBABLY result in the clearance you want.

This is a set of leaks waiting impatiently to happen.
Macbone1
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Re: Benge 290 question

Post by Macbone1 »

It's worth stopping in at your local repair tech. The horn could have fallen a certain way at some point, pushing the bell closer to the plane of the slide. Even an almost imperceptible bend the length of the bell can move the bell rim in quite a bit.
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