King Slide Compatibility

Post Reply
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

King Slide Compatibility

Post by Matt K »

I'm copying this info from something Klimchak posted a few days ago because I've frequently wanted to know this info
2B/Jiggs/old single bore Liberty/605/older tempo with 7.5” nickel [plated] bell are compatible

3B/2B+/606/Benge 170/Tempo with 8” nickel bell are compatible

3B+/607/608/609/Benge 160,175 are compatible

4B/5B/Benge 165 and 190 are compatible
Going ahead and stickying this here. Just dawned on me it might be a good idea to do this for other manfuacturers too (such as how Bach 42 and 50 slides may work with Edwards bells, etc.)
User avatar
Kingfan
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:32 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Kingfan »

To the 4B/5B/Benge 165 and 190 add 6B(Duo Gravis) and 7B.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
Greg Songer
King 606, King 3B-F: DE LT101/LTD/D3
King 4B-F: Bach 5G Megatone gold plated
King 2107 bass: DE MB109/MB J/J8 King
afugate
Posts: 644
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:47 am
Location: Oklahoma City

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by afugate »

To the 2B sizes add the Cleveland Superior. (I swapped my 2B bell with a Superior and love sound of the bigger throat.)

--Andy in OKC
jorymil
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:23 pm
Location: Kansas City

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by jorymil »

To the 3B/606 sizes, add the Bach (yes, you read that right!) Liberty. Conn-Selmer must have been doing some experimenting in the early days of the merger, and put out a Bach-stamped horn with a King-style bell tenon and nut. Classic Bach-style dual-radius slide; all nickel-silver.

Not all Bach Liberty horns have the slide-side nut, but those that do use the same nut/tenon/receiver as a King 606.
Crazy4Tbone86
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:52 am

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 »

Kingfan wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:56 pm To the 4B/5B/Benge 165 and 190 add 6B(Duo Gravis) and 7B.
The King bass trombone tapered slide tenon (from models 6B, 7B and 8B) does not fit very well in the bell section slide receiver of the King 4B/5B and/or Benge 165/190. Yes it will “sort of” do a friction fit, but the bass trombone male connector it is a bit too large. The threading would probably only connect if either/both parts were extremely worn.
Brian D. Hinkley - Player, Teacher, Technician and Trombone Enthusiast
User avatar
Kingfan
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:32 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Kingfan »

I just did a test with my 4B and 7B. The 4B slide fit into the 7B very well, and once the nut was tightened seemed very playable. The 7B slide fit into the 4B but the tenon ring was quite a bit further from the receiver but it was close enough to get enough threads to engage with the receiver nut and be playable. I didn't live test either one, but once I get my chops back (I had surgery recently) I can do a full play test if anybody is interested.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
Greg Songer
King 606, King 3B-F: DE LT101/LTD/D3
King 4B-F: Bach 5G Megatone gold plated
King 2107 bass: DE MB109/MB J/J8 King
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 5897
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by BGuttman »

The 7B slide on the 4b simulates Jay Friedman's Bach setup (50 slide on a 42).
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
Crazy4Tbone86
Posts: 1353
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:52 am

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 »

I have a 7B slide tenon male part that I bought about 10 years ago for a customer project that was canceled. It definitely does not fit in the King 4B and 5Bs that have come through the shop……I have tried it on many of them. Maybe there are different compatibilities for different vintages? Better yet, possibly the part that was sent to me is not a 7B tenon?
Brian D. Hinkley - Player, Teacher, Technician and Trombone Enthusiast
CalgaryTbone
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 1:39 pm

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by CalgaryTbone »

I have a friend who used a 4B bell on an 88H slide (press fit) for a while. His 88H bell needed some repairs, and he didn't have a spare horn - someone loaned him the 4B to use. While experimenting with the King, he discovered that the bell would fit on the Conn slide, but you had to treat it as a "press fit' since the bell nut is on the bell for the Conn and on the slide for the King. It worked pretty well for him, but he went back to his regular equipment once the repairs were done.

Jim Scott
User avatar
hyperbolica
Posts: 2792
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by hyperbolica »

Is there a thread for Yamaha slide compatibility?
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Matt K »

hyperbolica wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:39 pm Is there a thread for Yamaha slide compatibility?
There is now
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27866
User avatar
hyperbolica
Posts: 2792
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by hyperbolica »

Thanks. I'm starting to get interested in some of the odd Yamaha stuff, like the Japan only models. So far 455 is a straight 500/525 (like a 356 without the valve) and the 353 looks similar to the 354.
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Matt K »

There’s also a straight 356 iirc. I ordered those parts to have a straight section awhile ago.
MrHCinDE
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:00 am
Location: Ludwigsburg, Germany

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by MrHCinDE »

My Besson 737 bell is compatible with my 3B+ hand slide

(also the tuning slide)
User avatar
greenbean
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:14 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by greenbean »

Wow - I am glad I read this thread. I have owned *many* 4Bs, 5Bs, and Duo Gravi but have never swapped slides! Even though I have swapped lots of small King slides as well as my numerous Bach 16 & 16M's.

I have a Benge 190F, a 1963 King 1480 ("pre-5B"), and a King 1485 Silver Sonic. All slides are perfectly swappable and all combinations play great!
Tom in San Francisco
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
Mamaposaune
Posts: 423
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:48 pm
Location: Central Jersey

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Mamaposaune »

Greenbean, Will a 1480 slide fit a 4B and 5B?
Not sure if I understood your post clearly.
User avatar
greenbean
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:14 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by greenbean »

Yes, these horns have swappable slides (confirmed this morning):

--Benge 190F
--1972 King 4B
--1982 King 5B
--1960 HN White King 1485 SS
--1963 HN White King 1480

Their slides are all .547 and have identical dimensions - except for width. All combos played well w/no response or intonation issues. Oh, and the mpc receivers were a bit larger on the 5B/1480/1485. Again, not an issue. I played them this morning with a Marcellus mpc. Such great playing horns! :good:
Tom in San Francisco
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Matt K »

Did you happen to check with a tuner? I'm assuming it wasn't a big difference either way, just something to keep in mind when addressing such issues, worth noting for someone who might be wanting to acquire something to slot onto a bell section who might be reading this in the future.

For example, I had a fabulous playing Shires T0825GLW slide that had what I suspect was a Bach 36 tenon on it; slotted onto my Mt. Vernon Bach 9 bell section perfectly. Thought it was going to be my forever setup when I was trying it out at Dillon's. Went to play with some drones. Turns out it was like super, super, super flat. Almost "A" flat. No wonder it sounded so dark & rich! Worked no problem on my Shires bells whe I switched the tenon out!
User avatar
greenbean
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:14 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by greenbean »

I did use a tuner. They were all fine.
Tom in San Francisco
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
blap73
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:45 am
Location: Southern California

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by blap73 »

Anyone able to check a 606 slide on a 3BF bell section? [edited, I had specified 3B+F]
User avatar
greenbean
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:14 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by greenbean »

Yes, it fits.
Tom in San Francisco
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
2bobone
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by 2bobone »

When I was performing in the NSO, the Principal and Associate Principal put Bach 50B slides on their 42B's. I never understood why the Principal player needed to have someone doubling him since he was in the register where he could dominate with no great difficulty, whilst the bass trombone had to take a breath on virtually every note in order to begin to match the power of two tenors in their most comfortable register. When you critically examine the imbalance, you must come up with the assumption that to re-create a new balance, the bass trombonist must increase the size of his equipment even though he already had his back up against a wall ! You finally reach a point of the human capacity to adjust upwards. It is a constant battle to achieve an equitable balance when you are so overpowered by two to one. Does anyone else out there think that to be the case, or am I being too critical ?
blap73
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:45 am
Location: Southern California

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by blap73 »

seems like thread drift
Posaunus
Posts: 3424
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:54 pm
Location: California

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Posaunus »

2bobone wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:39 pm When I was performing in the NSO, the Principal and Associate Principal put Bach 50B slides on their 42B's. I never understood why the Principal player needed to have someone doubling him since he was in the register where he could dominate with no great difficulty, whilst the bass trombone had to take a breath on virtually every note in order to begin to match the power of two tenors in their most comfortable register. When you critically examine the imbalance, you must come up with the assumption that to re-create a new balance, the bass trombonist must increase the size of his equipment even though he already had his back up against a wall ! You finally reach a point of the human capacity to adjust upwards. It is a constant battle to achieve an equitable balance when you are so overpowered by two to one. Does anyone else out there think that to be the case, or am I being too critical ?
Interesting observation, Bob. Especially since you were that bass trombonist!

But this should probably be in a separate thread ("trombone arms war" or something like that?).

Lots of conversations on this general topic in previous posts on The Trombone Forum and TromboneChat. Seems to have been a trend in (U.S.?) orchestras for at least 60 years; probably more.
2bobone
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by 2bobone »

"But this should probably be in a separate thread ("trombone arms war" or something like that?)."

Apologies. I got caught up with all the slide-swapping !
kitlittekentrombone
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu May 04, 2023 9:18 am

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by kitlittekentrombone »

Does a 2b slide work with a 3b bell section? Im not sure how all this works and I have a 2b but have seen a 3b bell posted online and I think it would be a great purchase, I'm just not sure how all the compatibility works.
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 5897
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by BGuttman »

kitlittekentrombone wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 11:27 am Does a 2b slide work with a 3b bell section? Im not sure how all this works and I have a 2b but have seen a 3b bell posted online and I think it would be a great purchase, I'm just not sure how all the compatibility works.
The 2B slide tenon is smaller than the 3B receiver. You might be able to make them friction fit (no bell nut) with a paper shim on the taper of the 2B slide.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
JRmusic
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:08 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by JRmusic »

Interesting discovery today. I have a 3B bell that I had been using a 606 slide on, and it’s a great combination. I saw a $60 “Tempo” for sale nearby, went and bought it, and when I got home I realized that it’s ACTUALLY a 306, NOT a 606. (I was familiar with 606 “Tempos”) Hmmm- this needs further investigation. It doesn’t say “Made in USA” on the bell, so there’s a clue. Did King have some horns made offshore? Seems like a decent horn, but there are differences- it appears to me to have been made in a separate factory. In any case, the slide doesn’t work well with my 3B bell.
Last edited by JRmusic on Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:08 pm, edited 7 times in total.
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4530
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Burgerbob »

I recently got a King 605F to possibly make a 2B/F out of. Surprise surprise, the 605 slide is 3B compatible, NOT 2B compatible.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Matt K »

Burgerbob wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:36 pm I recently got a King 605F to possibly make a 2B/F out of. Surprise surprise, the 605 slide is 3B compatible, NOT 2B compatible.
What's the bore size of your tubing? The local techs measured at... .488" if I remember which is... smaller than the bore size of the slide and I'm wondering if they measured it right but I don't own a pair of calipers. Actually... speaking of...
Posaunus
Posts: 3424
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:54 pm
Location: California

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Posaunus »

Matt K wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:56 pm ... I'm wondering if they measured it right but I don't own a pair of calipers. Actually... speaking of...
Matt,

Decent (not great) digital calipers are available inexpensively at Harbor Freight.

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tool ... 63586.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tool ... 63710.html
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4530
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Burgerbob »

Matt K wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:56 pm

What's the bore size of your tubing? The local techs measured at... .488" if I remember which is... smaller than the bore size of the slide and I'm wondering if they measured it right but I don't own a pair of calipers. Actually... speaking of...
.490 through the valve section. Smol!
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Matt K »

Posaunus wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:30 pm
Matt K wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:56 pm ... I'm wondering if they measured it right but I don't own a pair of calipers. Actually... speaking of...
Matt,

Decent (not great) digital calipers are available inexpensively at Harbor Freight.

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tool ... 63586.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tool ... 63710.html
Yeah I just ordered a pair. Kept forgetting to order them for like two years now lol

How does your 605 play? I keep thinking I’m going to sell mine and then it falls through and I end up being glad :lol:
JRmusic
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:08 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by JRmusic »

Burgerbob wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:36 pm I recently got a King 605F to possibly make a 2B/F out of. Surprise surprise, the 605 slide is 3B compatible, NOT 2B compatible.
Helpful info. Thanks.
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4530
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Burgerbob »

Matt K wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:36 am


How does your 605 play? I keep thinking I’m going to sell mine and then it falls through and I end up being glad :lol:
Sadly mine was much more banged up than the photos let on, and the valve knuckle has a huge crack, as well as the slide being pretty trashed. I got the crack soldered just to see how it plays and... I haven't played it yet. Oops.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
Posaunus
Posts: 3424
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:54 pm
Location: California

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Posaunus »

Burgerbob wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:02 am I got the crack soldered just to see how it plays and... I haven't played it yet. Oops.
Perhaps a consequence of having too many trombones, Aidan?
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4530
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Burgerbob »

Posaunus wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:48 am
Burgerbob wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:02 am I got the crack soldered just to see how it plays and... I haven't played it yet. Oops.
Perhaps a consequence of having too many trombones, Aidan?
There's a reason I have a PDF of all my horns... I would forget I have them otherwise!
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
WestTXTBoneGuy73
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2023 12:42 pm

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by WestTXTBoneGuy73 »

So would a 606 Bell work with a 3B Slide?
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4530
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Burgerbob »

WestTXTBoneGuy73 wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2023 8:09 pm So would a 606 Bell work with a 3B Slide?
Based on my sample size of .5, yes... don't take my word for it though.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
Klimchak
Posts: 321
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:38 am

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Klimchak »

Yes, a 606 bell fits a 3b slide. I was looking for a straight bell section for my 3bf and ended up trying an old 606 that I started on, but the slide was unusable. Works and sounds great and am not tempted to pursue an actual 3b bell since this works so well.
Aluketich
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:47 pm

Re: King Slide Compatibility

Post by Aluketich »

Just popped on here to look for a similar answer, but i'm not sure what kind of slide i have. Bell has King 2b Liberty engraved on it with number 661800 and slide (much newer) has a number 6790 on it. Plays nice, but what I really am looking for is value since im looking to purchase this horn from a local retired music director. Thanks
Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”