Benge 165F

[Elow]

Just picked up a benge 165 for $150 and really like it, the mid to low range is really nice making me want a low E pull. Has anyone had success making another tuning slide to get a good low E or even lower? I dont need it, but it would be nice to have

[BGuttman]

This was something I didn't like about this model when it came out. The 150, 158, and 159 all have wraps that look like the classic Conn 88H and have a real E-pull. The 165 had a really odd wrap.

You could probably make yourself an E tuning slide from some tubing. Much less convenient to use than a real E pull. I know I wanted to investigate that for my Yamaha 682G (same problem -- the tuning slide(s) doesn't pull out enough to get the attachment to E).

[norbie2018]

This was something I didn't like about this model when it came out. The 150, 158, and 159 all have wraps that look like the classic Conn 88H and have a real E-pull. The 165 had a really odd wrap.

You could probably make yourself an E tuning slide from some tubing. Much less convenient to use than a real E pull. I know I wanted to investigate that for my Yamaha 682G (same problem -- the tuning slide(s) doesn't pull out enough to get the attachment to E).

The OP was referring to a Benge. How do Holton models get in the picture? Seems pretty random.

[OneTon]

Nice price. Congratulations.

[Posaunus]

Just picked up a benge 165 for $150 and really like it, ...

You got a heck of a bargain. As said many times before, the Benge large-bore tenors are underrated.
The 165F is a supercharged King 4BF, and can hold its own in a professional setting.

[BGuttman]

This was something I didn't like about this model when it came out. The 150, 158, and 159 all have wraps that look like the classic Conn 88H and have a real E-pull. The 165 had a really odd wrap.

You could probably make yourself an E tuning slide from some tubing. Much less convenient to use than a real E pull. I know I wanted to investigate that for my Yamaha 682G (same problem -- the tuning slide(s) doesn't pull out enough to get the attachment to E).

The OP was referring to a Benge. How do Holton models get in the picture? Seems pretty random.

True. The 175F and 190F also had E-pulls with a nominally open wrap. I preferred the 190 over the 165.

[spencercarran]

The OP was referring to a Benge. How do Holton models get in the picture? Seems pretty random.

True. The 175F and 190F also had E-pulls with a nominally open wrap. I preferred the 190 over the 165.

175F owner here. When the open horn is tuned, pulling the valve slide all the way out leaves it 30 cents sharp of E. Benge 190 appears to have identical wrap, so also does not have an E pull.

Back to topic, congrats on the killer deal! As long as you're not trying to sub in for bass on it often, you probably won't miss the E pull option that much.

[Ledgeview4]

Is the benge 165f a good trombone. I'm looking to buy a relatively cheap intermediate one and I found one in great condition for about 600.

[BGuttman]

The 165F is a good instrument. I think $600 may be just a bit high, but not too bad -- especially for one in good condition.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Back to the original inquiry.....

Just buy some stock .562 bore tubing (inner and outer) and rebuild it with a very long pull. It will only improve the horn. The weakest design feature of the Benge 165F is the tight bends in the F-attachment tubing. If you rebuild it with a more open layout, you will have a beast of a horn.

As stated in some previous TromboneChat threads.....the only differences between the Benge 165F and the Benge 190F was that the 190 had a more open F-attachment layout and the 190 bell had an additional annealing. If you invest a little time and energy into a 165, you could theoretically create a 190. Many times, I have been tempted to buy a 165 and do that experiment myself.

[Posaunus]

The 165F is a good instrument. I think $600 may be just a bit high, but not too bad -- especially for one in good condition.

Don't know where you get your data, Bruce, but I don't think that $600 is a high price for a Benge 165F in good condition. Perhaps I'm in a minority, but I think the Benge 165F is a fine trombone, even with its "tight" F-attachment bends (which are not as tight as the legendary Conn 88H). The 165F also has a better, more open valve than the classic Elkhart 88Hs. $1,000 would be an optimistic price, but I think $600 would be a good deal in 2022.

[afugate]

Don't know where you get your data, Bruce, but I don't think that $600 is a high price for a Benge 165F in good condition. Perhaps I'm in a minority, but I think the Benge 165F is a fine trombone, even with its "tight" F-attachment bends (which are not as tight as the legendary Conn 88H). The 165F also has a better, more open valve than the classic Elkhart 88Hs. $1,000 would be an optimistic price, but I think $600 would be a good deal in 2022.

I agree. If it's in good shape, $600 is reasonable.

--Andy in OKC

[spencercarran]

As stated in some previous TromboneChat threads.....the only differences between the Benge 165F and the Benge 190F was that the 190 had a more open F-attachment layout and the 190 bell had an additional annealing. If you invest a little time and energy into a 165, you could theoretically create a 190. Many times, I have been tempted to buy a 165 and do that experiment myself.

I had been under the impression that it had a different leadpipe as well, but I'm not sure.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

As stated in some previous TromboneChat threads.....the only differences between the Benge 165F and the Benge 190F was that the 190 had a more open F-attachment layout and the 190 bell had an additional annealing. If you invest a little time and energy into a 165, you could theoretically create a 190. Many times, I have been tempted to buy a 165 and do that experiment myself.

I had been under the impression that it had a different leadpipe as well, but I'm not sure.

Yes, that could very well be true. I do remember hearing stories of some experimental Benge 190 leadpipes that are floating around. The stories that I have heard mentioned that special leadpipes were sent to John Marcellus and the Cleveland Symphony players.

[Vegastokc]

Just picked up a benge 165 for $150 and really like it, the mid to low range is really nice making me want a low E pull. Has anyone had success making another tuning slide to get a good low E or even lower? I dont need it, but it would be nice to have

Wow, great deal especially if its in decent shape.
I picked up a 165 last summer for $300 which I thought was a also pretty good deal.
For now, the 165 is filling my large bore spot in my stable.
Easy to play with a nice tone (although I am still working out some of the partial slotting in 4th, 5th, T1 and T2. )
To me, it always fells like it wants a "full throtttle" - i.e. does not get over blown easily. Triple forte is no problem.
I played 4th part on it in Trombone Christmas this past December and it blended very well.

For me, if I ever needed to hit a low E consistantly, I think I would just look for something with a second trigger.