Monette Mouthpieces

[NamePlate]

My friends in trumpet land constantly praise their monette mouthpieces, I went searching and saw that they actually have a decently sized trombone collection of mouthpieces but I rarely see any mention of them on here. Are the trombone mouthpieces not that good or are they just too expensive compared to other reliable options?

[Burgerbob]

Expensive, weird, and very few top pros on them.

[modelerdc]

I've known a few players that have used them, but they have a little different sound, which can get airy if the player lacks focus. They do put you a little out of the mainstream, and are among the most expensive mpcs out there. They were first developed a few decades ago when trombones and trumpets were going through a stage where heavy metal was thought to help project the sound, although at least for trombones this has become something of a passing fad. Like all mouthpieces what works for you might not work for somebody else. The only way to tell is to try them. For most players there are good and less expensive options.

[BGuttman]

"You can buy better but you can't pay more"

[harrisonreed]

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I want to believe that this design is hanging on the wall somewhere in their office....

[Matt K]

I actually play on trumpet pieces that are copies of those designs. I didn’t intentionally buy them, but when Kanstul went out I bought some based on paper descriptions because they were a good price and later discovered they were Monette copies. Later, I had Lexan rims made for me that were copies of those rims. So I don’t play Monette pieces, which people do claim are better than the copies but what “magic” happens to make them such isn’t public knowledge.

One of he alleged reasons in trumpet land as to why they are good pieces is that the typical length trumpet mouthpieces were established at a time when the “A” trumpet was popular. The idea is that the typical length is too long for a Bb trumpet, let alone C and Eb/D trumpets. So Monette (and others as well; Osmun music has been shortening shanks for decades now as well, and others offer such 3.1” shanks) reduced the length of shanks produced to match the key of the instrument being played.

Since the shanks are shorter, it means that the instrument will be sharper. However, the throats and backbites on Monettes are massive. Typical Bach is 25 or 27, and monettes are an 18 (Prana) or 21ish. That changes the way the overtones line up and let you push your tuning slide all the way in despite losing a couple of mm on length.

The design works really well on trumpet imo. I’m not a great trumpet player but the difference is still quite noticeable and beneficial to me. More in tune, easier to access high range, cleaner tone etc.

However, I am not aware of the length of mouthpieces being any different on his trombone pieces. I’ve also never tried them. Someone here reached out to me a few months ago about one of them as they had one on order but I don’t recall if they ended up liking it or not. It’s a steep price although they’ve seemed to keep their prices relatively stable as many other manufacturers have increased prices. Iirc they have been around $300 for the last decade, and are $340 now. In 2010, Bach pieces were still around $50 and boutique makers were in the low $100. Now a full piece is approaching $300 so it isn’t as crazy as it used to be. They are all good plated too. The trumpet line up has a silver plated piece but I’m not aware of a silver trombone piece.

That is to say what makes a Monette work really well for trumpet doesn’t necessarily apply to trombone and with how expensive they are, there isn’t enough to differentiate themselves with other makers. I’ve also never seen a Monette booth at a trade show like ETW. That isn’t to say say he’s never been to a trombone one but when I was looking for pieces when I was in college, the usual suspects were always at conventions and that makes a difference for adoption.

[BGuttman]

One thing that used to miff trumpet players when they first came out was that Monette mouthpieces did not fit standard trumpets. The shanks were sized to fit Monette trumpets exclusively (and they were pretty pricey, too). I guess Dave Monette learned the hard way that his mouthpieces should fit standard trumpets as well or he'd lose a lot of sales.

There was even a Monette trombone at one time. I think 5 were produced. Scott Hartman had one, and Larry Isaacson had one. I don't know where the other ones went.

[Mv2541]

I’ve been daily driving one for about a year and change. The biggest difference I notice is where the target on each partial is. On the Monette, the sweet spot is super low for each partial, and you can continue this into the upper register. I think that’s what they mean by the constant pitch center; on some pieces like my GB the target changes relative to what range you are in (and feels roughly like the top 1/4 of the partial) where the Monettes sweet spot is always just about as low on each partial as you can play.

That’s why i think it can be difficult to switch back and forth as well.

[Andre1966tr]

I am also a long time trumpet player and my reason to avoid trumpets and mps from Monette is Wynton Marsalis. Just hear him on Hothouse Flowers (Bach trumpet, the Stradivarius Vindobona model) and compare it with his later recordings on Monette.
Thank you, Wynton!

[Kbiggs]

I played on a Monette TT5L for several years when I played in a quintet with a couple of the guys who worked at Monette. I was also playing on a Bach 42 with a 42H bell, a Thayer valve, and a Bach short open leadpipe. It worked well if I wanted to bury the orchestra. It didn’t work well if I wanted to play softly and blend with other players. But that was just my experience…

At times, it felt like an orthopedic device. I HAD to play correctly or the mouthpiece and horn wouldn’t respond. Good discipline, but not necessarily good musical output.

These days, I play on that same 42, but I now use the standard weight bell, an Instrument Innovations rotor, a more tapered neckpipe, and an M/K Drawing 42 leadpipe. And I use a GB NY 5.5, or DE XT 102G. I like my sound better today.

When I was playing my old set-up, one of my teachers said to me, “Most of what we play is in the mezzo piano to mezzo forte dynamic. We all have to work at playing very loudly and very softly. Why sacrifice the soft playing just to play loud? It’s like dancing in caulk [logging] boots.”

[Dennis]

I was also playing on a Bach 42 with a 42H bell, a Thayer valve, and a Bach short open leadpipe.I

These days, I play on that same 42, but I now use the standard weight bell, an Instrument Innovations rotor, a more tapered neckpipe, and an M/K Drawing 42 leadpipe. And I use a GB NY 5.5, or DE XT 102G.

I read this, and I think about the hand axe that George Washington used to chop down the cherry tree. I've got it in my tool box, inherited from my dad. Of course, my great-great-grandad had to replace the axehead when it was rusted out to unusable. Grandad broke the handle around 1955 and had to put a new handle on the new head...

[Johnstad]

I have played on a Monette BT 1S and enjoyed it. I do use DE Mpcs now for my Contra, Bass and Tenor. It just works better for me.

I’ve been to the shop and have had Dave work with me. He genuinely is about making musicians lives easier to perform on their instruments.

They are a trumpet focused company. Everyone there (great people) performs on trumpet at a high level.

[KingOfDreamland]

I've owned a couple, one of which I still have (needs to be re- plated though). Personally, I liked the ones I had, but I also bought them used at a steep discount. At full price, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

[dukesboneman]

Dave Monette has expertly crafted a mystic around his stuff.
Which is why guys pay thousands of dollars for the horns and mouthpieces
I`ve tried Monette mouthpieces , They don`t feel food or sound good for me.
Very Airy and infocused. I don`t always have the optimal seating arrangement on a gig.
My opinion is that Dave Monette is a wonderful snake oil salesman at selling his "New aND IMPROVED" product

[Mv2541]

Dave Monette has expertly crafted a mystic around his stuff.
Which is why guys pay thousands of dollars for the horns and mouthpieces
I`ve tried Monette mouthpieces , They don`t feel food or sound good for me
Very Airy and infocused. I don`t always have the optimal seating arrangement on a gig.
My opinion is that Dave Monette is a wonderful snake oil salesman at selling his "New aND IMPROVED" product

If enough top players (especially on trumpet but a lot of bone too) choose to use them and have similar feelings about how they work, I think it’s not really fair to call it snake oil. It’s like someone with a virus claiming antibiotics are snake oil- it just might not be quite the right tool for your current situation.

[tbonesullivan]

I really dislike the entire tone of anything Monette has put forth regarding their mouthpieces and instruments with relation to everyone else. It is really written with quite a bit of emphasis not on how good or well made their items are, but how they are BETTER than other designs.

Like, if you are having intonation problems, it's due to you being used to playing using inferior mouthpiece designs.

"Monette mouthpieces offer dramatically improved intonation, as long as the player stops adjusting in registers that no longer require adjustment!"

I remember when Monette declared, while working on the Monette trombone, that pretty much every maker was making their bells wrong, except for him, because they weren't rolling them out enough.

[Matt K]

Two things can be true at once: 1) You can make a quality product and 2) You can still manage to oversell that quality product. In my opinion, Monette falls into both of these categories. So while I wouldn't call it snake oil myself, I can see why their marketing would be considered over-the-top. As I noted above, I think that it also matters which product one is referring to. Though I've not played their trombone pieces, it seems that since our pieces aren't what Dave would consider to be "too long" as with Bb, C, etc. trumpet mouthpieces that the divergence between his designs and a standard design are less drastic than that of a mouthpiece that is noticably shorter than other contemporary pieces like the trumept designs are.

[Kbiggs]

I suppose my comments above are a bit unfair…

Having played a Monette mpc in the past, I can say that it helps the player produce a consistent tone throughout the range of the instrument if you learn to play that mouthpiece correctly. Many players tend to slump or slouch, or push their head forward from the neck while playing. When that happens, a Monette mpc “backs up,” and the sound tends to get “fuzzy” and the dynamic suffers. The Monette mpc also tends to encourage the embouchure to stay in one place, which can feel like the embouchure muscles get “stiff.” It also helps to use a LOT of air, which doesn’t encourage efficiency.

My comments above about the heavy equipment were more about how I used to play—like a young pitcher who throws mostly fastballs. As I’ve grown older, I’m learning to be more of a pitcher with a variety of pitches. I’m using lighter equipment, learning better mechanics and efficiency (thanks Doug Elliott!!!).

“Some days you get up and put the horn to your chops and it sounds pretty good and you win. Some days you try and nothing works and the horn wins. This goes on and on and then you die and the horn wins.”
— Dizzy Gillespie

[harrisonreed]

They claimed their trombone slide was the only perfectly in tune slide ever made...