Bach 34 vs 36

[cruisebone]

Hello all,

I am looking for a Bach 36 Straight tenor - NY or Mt. Vernon only.

BUT, I am curios about how the 34 straight compares to the 36 in terms of playability, weight, sound, etc. I know the bore size is .522 and .525 respectively but curious about other comparisons and experiences from the experts here.

I currently have 3 horns - an old crappy Getzen that I am about to sell, or donate somewhere, an early 60s brass King 2-b that I played on a cruise ship gig for a year, and an early King 2-b Silvertone. So the .522 and .525 are clearly bigger than what I have used but is there really a noticeable difference in those bore sizes?

Thanks for any help y'all might provide!

[BGuttman]

Firstly, a 34 is a rare beast and you will probably have a hard time finding one.

From where you are coming, I'd bet you won't be able to tell the difference between a 34 and a 36. If you just find a nice 36 and learn it you will probably find it works a treat.

Note that the 36 comes with two options: yellow vs. gold brass bell, and standard vs. lightweight (nickel) slide. Yellow bell seems to pair best with standard slide and gold bell pairs to lightweight slide. But you may find you like any of the 4 combinations.

[cruisebone]

1 - I did find a 34: are they great player's?
2 - If the width of the slide has been widened to that of a 42, would that kill the magic of the 34?
3 - Could I restore the magic by fixing the slide width?

Thanks for your quick reply!
JohnW

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

1 - I did find a 34: are they great player's?
2 - If the width of the slide has been widened to that of a 42, would that kill the magic of the 34?
3 - Could I restore the magic by fixing the slide width?

Thanks for your quick reply!
JohnW

I think I know which horn you’re referring to. I saw that on their website as well. If it were me I’d try to find one that was all original.

[cruisebone]

Thanks.
My brother is a NYC trumpet player and I've been in touch with a couple of his friends who are top NYC trombone players (commercial, not orchestral), and just got off the phone with a third player (all of whom are probably members here so I won't say who), and that is the same comment I've heard from them.

BUT, how hard could it be to put the slide back to the original width?

The horn is pretty hard to find, as noted above by BGuttman, so that in and of itself is rather intriguing to me. I wasn't looking for a 34 and randomly came across it while searching for a 36.

My twin is actually going to be at the store that you probably correctly identified in a couple of days, along with another legendary NYC trumpet player who is a total gear head, and they are both going to check it out for me.

Thanks for your reply!
JW

[Burgerbob]

I can't imagine where you would find an original 34 crook or even a good replacement. I don't think it's a shared part with the 36.

[biggiesmalls]

I have an all-original, unmolested 34 that would be willing to part with for the right price. PM me if you're interested.

[cruisebone]

PM sent

[Matt K]

What types of playing would you be using it for? Obviously you’re after something fairly rare since you’re lining yourself to my Vernon and NY Bachs. I hate to take torches to horns like that unless it needs it. If you wanted something with a wider crook, might behoove you to get one that’s already in that configuration anyway.

It looks like the 34 purchase might work out which is great. But if it doesn’t, I might suggest a more recent 36. You can get them for a much better price. Brassark sells a 36 mt Vernon leadpipe replica that you could swap the original for, and the crook could be replaced by a wider one (you can order just a slide crook from Shires or Edwards, maybe M&W too?) that is in the wide configuration. That slide should be compatible with older bell sections. Then you can expand your search to Mt tenon bells, bell sections, or whole horns. And it would mean not needing to take a torch to an original slide. Fwiw

If it’s more commercial and you want something just from the general era, the Medium bore conns are highly regarded. Or perhaps a King 3B+. They’re different than the 36 for sure but have a smaller feel than the 36.

[elmsandr]

So, I don't have a 36 at the moment to compare it to... but I do have a 34. In the past, 36s to me always felt a little 'neither fish nor fowl' in that they were not big and they were not little. The 34 feels like a big small horn to me. Which is funny and probably just a placebo to me, because it is pretty much a 36 with a slightly different flare. Sure the bore is 0.003" smaller, but the leadpipe* is the same. I don't know about the slide crook; this makes me think that we need to blueprint this and see what it is and compare (handslide crook isn't on the shop cards). I don't know why we wouldn't think it is NOT a shared part with the 36... V.B. was cheap as %#$^ and did not make new tooling unless necessary; see the entire existence of the 36 and 42s for reference. Looking at the shop card for mine, I don't think the slide width on there is even correct. It says 3 3/4 (like 42s and 50s); I don't think that slide is that wide-- I'd wager it is 3 3/16ths like 36s and smaller.

*Do note that the leadpipe number being the same means only that ones made near each other are nominally the same. Bach would update his tooling, but keep the same number so vintage can matter. For a complicated deep dive, read the 'Bachology' articles on the C trumpet design to get an idea of how things updated there.

Cheers,
Andy

[octavposaune]

Andy,

Shop card slide widths are center to center, not inner span.

MV slide crooks were different than Elkhart production as well. I am not sure there were NY 34s, but there were a few Elkhart 34s made.

The bell on 34s was supposed to be a tad smaller throated than a 36, but I bet many are made on the 36/42 mandrel. 34s were also supposed to have a thin (lightweight) bell.

Benn

[elmsandr]

Andy,

Shop card slide widths are center to center, not inner span

Yup, just noting that I remember mine as a narrow slide. Enough that I don't use one of the leather grips that I have even though the raw finish makes my hands stink after playing it. The leather grip doesn't fit, and it would if it were the same width as all my other slides.

...
MV slide crooks were different than Elkhart production as well. I am not sure there were NY 34s, but there were a few Elkhart 34s made.
...

Interesting, we really should map out this crook and see what it is. There are at least two NY 34s still out there, mine and another I've seen on FB.

Bach 34 Serial No 37xx Engraving.JPG

Shop card has mine sold in '51 and re-sold in '52; so from a bit before the move to Mt.Vernon.

Cheers,
Andy

[cruisebone]

WOW!!