Bach 50 BL Bass Trombone??

[Shwnniles]

I'm primarily a student, tenor trombone player with some experience on euphonium. The idea of playing bass trombone has been on my mind since high school, but I never really had the chance. I've been looking into bass trombones to possibly buy, learn, and have experience with, and I stumbled across this "Bach Stradivarious 50BL" on eBay. Dual independent rotors, and comes with a back 1 1/2 G and a Schilke mouthpiece. It's in great condition with only a few minor cosmetic issues. It's at about $2000 USD buy it now price. When I saw this I immediately searched for this model of horn and couldn't find a bach Stradivarius 50Bl that was what was shown on the post. I could only find some dependant configuration-type horns. My question is, is this blatantly fake? Or is it an older model that just doesn't pop up on the web as easily as more modern models? thanks! feel free to PM me.

[BGuttman]

A Bach 50BL would be a single bass with a 10 1/2 " bell. Is that what the auction states?

[Burgerbob]

The marking on Bach bells (except some lucky '90s horns) will almost only give a B and some info about the bell, like L for large bell or G for gold bell.

That particular one is a 50B3OL (or 50B3LO... same thing), meaning rotors, open wrap, independent, large bell.

In all honestly, it wouldn't be my first choice for a new doubler. You will find easier and better horns to play for around the same price if you look.

Here's the listing, for those interested:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124925709829?h ... SwThVhU03Q

[Shwnniles]

A Bach 50BL would be a single bass with a 10 1/2 " bell. Is that what the auction states?

The auction states a dual valve configuration, and it said 50BL on the bell engraving as well...confusing

[Shwnniles]

The marking on Bach bells (except some lucky '90s horns) will almost only give a B and some info about the bell, like L for large bell or G for gold bell.

That particular one is a 50B3OL (or 50B3LO... same thing), meaning rotors, open wrap, independent, large bell.

In all honestly, it wouldn't be my first choice for a new doubler. You will find easier and better horns to play for around the same price if you look.

Here's the listing, for those interested:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124925709829?h ... SwThVhU03Q

Any recommendations on the easier and better-to-play horns? I couldn't seem to find any at that price range that wasn't one of those poorly made ones you see for about 1k. And what exactly makes it a bad horn for doubling? the large bell? Thanks!

[Burgerbob]

The marking on Bach bells (except some lucky '90s horns) will almost only give a B and some info about the bell, like L for large bell or G for gold bell.

That particular one is a 50B3OL (or 50B3LO... same thing), meaning rotors, open wrap, independent, large bell.

In all honestly, it wouldn't be my first choice for a new doubler. You will find easier and better horns to play for around the same price if you look.

Here's the listing, for those interested:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124925709829?h ... SwThVhU03Q

Any recommendations on the easier and better-to-play horns? I couldn't seem to find any at that price range that wasn't one of those poorly made ones you see for about 1k. And what exactly makes it a bad horn for doubling? the large bell? Thanks!

On eBay I don't see much. But keep your eyes on the Facebook marketplaces, the classifieds here, etc. I know a friend of mine will be selling a Benge 290 around christmastime that I would recommend over a 50B3OL.

[sirisobhakya]

A Bach 50BL would be a single bass with a 10 1/2 " bell. Is that what the auction states?

The auction states a dual valve configuration, and it said 50BL on the bell engraving as well...confusing

It is because the bell making and assembly departments are separated from each other. They don’t make bells one by one. So a 50BL (bass bell, yellow brass, 10.5” diameter) can be put on the following models:

50BL (single rotor, closed wrap)
50BLO (single rotor, open wrap)
50B2L (double dependent rotors, closed wrap)
50B2LO (double dependent rotors, open wrap)
50B3L (double rotors, closed wrap)
50B3LO (double rotors, open wrap)

[Digidog]

The marking on Bach bells (except some lucky '90s horns) will almost only give a B and some info about the bell, like L for large bell or G for gold bell.

That particular one is a 50B3OL (or 50B3LO... same thing), meaning rotors, open wrap, independent, large bell.

In all honestly, it wouldn't be my first choice for a new doubler. You will find easier and better horns to play for around the same price if you look.

Here's the listing, for those interested:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124925709829?h ... SwThVhU03Q

Any recommendations on the easier and better-to-play horns? I couldn't seem to find any at that price range that wasn't one of those poorly made ones you see for about 1k. And what exactly makes it a bad horn for doubling? the large bell? Thanks!

I quite like Yamaha bass trombones. If you can find a used 620 or 830, they are well, and rather easy, playing horns. The only thing is that in used conditions, they can be heavily worn because Yamaha uses very soft alloys in some of the critical parts - like rotors, valve caps and fitting rings.

If buying a used Yamaha, I'd recommend looking it up, and trying it in person - and/or having a good return policy from the seller - to see and feel its condition. They can be great finds, though I have no idea of how common they are in the market right now.

[hornbuilder]

Bach do not notate on the instrument what type, or lack of, valve that it has. Bells are not made specifically for particular models, and the markings indicate the specs of the bell flare, only.

So, a bell marked "model 42" (which would indicate yellow brass because there is no "G" for gold brass) could end up with no valve, a rotor (open or closed) a Hagman or a Thayer. Same with the bass bells. You cannot assume anything, other than the specific bell spec, from the bell marking.

[BGuttman]

I thought Bach did put valve type on the bell: 42B (rotor), 42A (Hagmann), 42T (Thayer), and 42K (K-valve).

[elmsandr]

I thought Bach did put valve type on the bell: 42B (rotor), 42A (Hagmann), 42T (Thayer), and 42K (K-valve).

Not generally, no. I have seen a lot of random "B"s on horns with various valves. I do not know that I have ever seen an A, T, or K stamped on the flare.

Heck, there are 42Bs marked 42 and vice-versa. To say that they "Do" anything in bold and ink is to assume you will be proven wrong.

Cheers,
Andy

[hornbuilder]

I thought Bach did put valve type on the bell: 42B (rotor), 42A (Hagmann), 42T (Thayer), and 42K (K-valve).

Not generally, no. I have seen a lot of random "B"s on horns with various valves. I do not know that I have ever seen an A, T, or K stamped on the flare.

Heck, there are 42Bs marked 42 and vice-versa. To say that they "Do" anything in bold and ink is to assume you will be proven wrong.

Cheers,
Andy

I have seen NY and Mt Vernon horns with the B after the number, but none since Elkhart. The only other things marked on Elkhart 42 bells after the number are:-
G gold brass
H heavy
* lightweight
M open gooseneck on the straight 42.

[hornbuilder]

I thought Bach did put valve type on the bell: 42B (rotor), 42A (Hagmann), 42T (Thayer), and 42K (K-valve).

No, they don't. That would create such a huge issue for inventory and keeping specific bells with specific valve types. Pointless when the actual bell doesn't change in any way.

[hornbuilder]

Note that model 50 bells do commonly have the B after the number. But then, they don't tend to make 50's without a valve of some sort.

[elmsandr]

Note that model 50 bells do commonly have the B after the number. But then, they don't tend to make 50's without a valve of some sort.

For amusement:

My factory straight Mt.Vernon 45 has "45B" on the flare.
The Corp 45B that Charlie Vernon sold just had 45.
The 45B they made for Jay Friedman had 45B.

My early Elkhart 10" Gold brass flare just has "50B".

My 90's 42G just had 42; but a GH flare I picked up about a year later has GH.

Cheers,
Andy