Alto Rental

[santisaucedo]

Hey guys

Beginner here. I've got 2 dedicated years on Tenor as an adult about 3 more if you count my high school days many years ago.

I've grown a little curious about Alto Trombones. I've seen some great examples online and noticed a lot of people on this forum use them. I think it would be fun to experiment but I'm definitely not able to commit to a purchase. The money I have would barely buy me a toy.

So I figured, ok I can rent one. The problem is I can't find a place that rents out Altos, just Tenor and Bass.
Does anyone have any advice?

[Matt K]

You may actually be surprised. A rental will run you a few hundred dollars and some of the cheaper altos are actually not all that bad. The JinBao with a replacement leadpipe is popular and new used to go for ~$500. They frequently come up use too. I'm actually aware of 3 that have sold here in the last month or so.

Wessex are also pretty good but they don't make their alto anymore. Same with Weril. Both of those would have to be found on th eused market.

If you do go with one of the imports, I'd recommend buying from a dealer rather than from eBay, personally. Dealerships at least usually do a little due dilligence in making sure you don't get a dud. eBay just ships you whichever one they grab from the back room first.

[santisaucedo]

Thanks Matt. With a little planning, I might be able to swing that. I've had pretty mediocre experiences testing out used trombones in Atlanta. My Yamaha student rental Tenor often sounds and feels better (though heavy).

Besides the used Wessex or Werils is there another maybe new option to consider? My earlier googling pointed me to a $300 "Moz" model but I assumed it would be cheap. Are the Wessex/Werilis definitely better?

Apologies if this is already covered in another thread but the search feature was down.

[BGuttman]

I would just like to point out that going from tenor trombone to alto trombone is nothing like going from tenor sax to alto sax. All the saxes use the same fingerings for notes on the page -- not so for tenor and alto trombone.

I was well into my returning (several years playing tenor and bass) before I even attempted an alto. And I got one with a Bb attachment so when my brain froze I could always pop the trigger and play it as a 6 position tenor (mine is a Conn 36H).

If you plan to play alto you must be able to read alto clef since most parts for one are in alto clef. I learned to read bass clef as well as alto clef on my alto trombone so I could play my Community Band parts on it to get practice. The positions are not intuitive.

If you are just going to hack around on it, even the pBone Mini will do, although it isn't as good a trombone as the regular pBone. I would hesitate to take a pBone Mini on a gig, though (except for a Christmas Caroling one).

You might want to see if you can get the Thomann also. Thomann is a European dealer, but i think they sell to the US.

There are a few Alto methods out there. Back when I was learning there was nothing. I got an early edition of Harrison Reed's method (which I think has been withdrawn). There might also be an alto method from Michael Lake. Lake plays jazz on an alto trombone and his Web Site is worth a visit (https://www.altobone.com).

[Matt K]

Brassark used to sell a JinBao but they don't stock it anymore. Personally, if I was in your shoes, I'd buy the first used one that came up with either a "Stauffer Brass" leadpipe or a Brassark leadpipe. That means it either came from a shop that did QC on it or the person who is selling it at least had a tech give it a once over when they yanked the leadpipe. The stock leadpipe is awful on those horns, but the aftermarket one makes them pretty decent. Or in short, I'd stick to JinBao, Wessex, or Weril. You are quite unlikely to get a Weril imo, I don't recall having one come up used in probably the better part of a decade. Wessex has since discontinued their as well, but they come up from time-to-time.

If you put up a WTB here though you might get someoen who has one in their clsoet who hasn't been playing it.

You could consider the pbone but it really isn't satisfying. Search for pbone here and you'll see a few interesting threads. Actually, that reminds me I need to follow up with someone...

[harrisonreed]

This one is tricky. The Chinese made altos have decent reviews but I suspect that that's because in many cases the review is being done by someone who doesn't have much experience with the alto, or is the one selling the alto in the first place. If every alto feels equally weird and foreign when you pick it up, then it is difficult to objectively review the dang thing. You get the leadpipe upgrade and something feels better so you rate it higher, even if the base product is still pretty bad.

I don't think the jinbao alto (the one I tried was a "Selman") is very good at all. The build quality was terrible, it was stuffy, and it didn't resonate. I think the culprit was QC, and that was 15 years ago now that I owned one. Maybe recent jinbao horns learned a lesson from Wessex and the QC is better.

One review I'd trust is the positive review of the Moz from Mike Lake. He knows what he is talking about, and he isn't selling horns either. If he says the moz is pretty good, then the one he had and was reviewing that day was pretty good.

I don't think you'd have anything to lose by buying it, and rental programs are not cost effective in the long run. Things that can help you start out on the right foot are to get the right mouthpiece, play in a room that sounds good, and really lock in on where the manufacturer put the bell edge. It's different on almost every brand. Good luck with it!

[Matt K]

I didn't know Mike Lake had kind things to say about the Moz; I'd actually never heard of it. I presume it's a JinBao stencil from the cursory Googling I did. There are 2 JinBao models; one looks like the K&H Slokar model and the other is similarish but has the bracing kind of... reversed from that. The latter is the more "entry" level of the models... if you really can say that about horns priced under $200 new.

The one thing about the JinBao/stencils is that they really can be bad duds. Like worst horn you've ever played level of dud. But not all are awful. The leadpipe really does make an enormous difference. Although other things can also affect how weird it is. My Wessex apparently was held together so tight, the bell brace bounced like a spring when my tech removed the solder. I haven't played it since he did that, but I'll be getting it back soonish. But I suspect if that had been ALL I had done to it, it would have been way better.

[harrisonreed]

The wizard of moz:



Coupon code is for his book, so he is not selling moz trombones.

[bwanamfupi]

Schmitt Music Shop in Minneapolis has their own line of alto trombones. I bought a used one off the Facebook trombone marketplace a couple years ago. They've also got a couple helpful videos about alto in general and making the transition from tenor. Mike Lake's videos are also really helpful.



DF Music in Chicago sells JP Rath trombones. They have a couple alto options. Christopher Bill did a YouTube review a little while ago. I think it's of the JP236RATH model. I bought a JP136 off ebay in the UK a couple years ago for 90 pounds. It was a fun horn to learn on. The Schmitt horn was an upgrade.
[media]https://www.dfmusicinc.com/John-Packer- ... -s/121.htm[/media]

My trombone playing is massively part-time hobbyist, so take "works for me" with a grain in salt.

[Matt K]

I forgot about the JP Rath. Those are usually pretty good too.

[santisaucedo]

Very nice. The videos help a ton. Going to do a little research but so far Mike Lake's videos have me pretty excited

[timothy42b]

I started with a pBone mini, still use it when the shoulder hurts, also have a Selman now that plays okay.

I can afford a Conn but did not want to invest with all the joint problems I've been having and at my age with no ensemble to play it in.

I think the mini is worth getting just to have an indestructible cheap alto to play with. And it's child size if you have anyone interested.

Correct me if I'm wrong but altos seemed to be a bit mouthpiece sensitive, you need to have the right size cup and the shank insert the right way. I went with the DE system, a 102 with a B+ cup. That put the partials back in reasonable tune.

[Matt K]

Correct me if I'm wrong but altos seemed to be a bit mouthpiece sensitive, you need to have the right size cup and the shank insert the right way. I went with the DE system, a 102 with a B+ cup. That put the partials back in reasonable tune.

Yeah, that matches my experience too; although for initially starting out it's going to be weird no matter what.

[heinzgries]

do anybody know which mouthpiece plays Michael Lake on the cheap alto?

[MBeal]

do anybody know which mouthpiece plays Michael Lake on the cheap alto?

I believe he uses a 6 1/2AL.

[harrisonreed]

He says 6.5AL but you can see that there is a different shank in it in the video. Looks like a DE shank.

[heinzgries]

perhaps Doug knows more

[Matt K]

Definitely looks like a Doug Elliott to me:

Mike Lake Alto.png

I can vaguely see the "Alto" on the stamp and eyeballing it looks like its maybe B or Cish depth.