Gold brass light weight slides

[Chatname]

Does anyone have experience with gold brass light weight slides, and would like to share?
How do they feel and sound?

[Matt K]

Man I had a T0825GLW Shires slide (nickel crook, gold tubes). I loved that slide. Gold brass made it just a touch darker but at louder volumes did liven up more... just like gold and red bells. I sold it because it didn't work for me commercially; I had a small bore horn at the time that I was using for jazz and other things you'd use a small bore for, and a large bore that worked better for classical/section work. If I had to have a slide that did everything though, I'd have stuck with it. One of these days I'm probably going to get a gold brass large bore slide since that would probably be a touch more suitable for the sound that I want out of a large bore.

[Chatname]

You mean like a T(W)47G, not light weight?

[Matt K]

If I were to buy one blind now, I'd probably do T47GLW. Or maybe a TW47GLW. I really don't like oversleeves both due to sound and the extra width. Sounds silly but that extra... 1mm makes a slide a lot more uncomfortable to hold. The Yamaha slides kind of split the difference where they're not really oversleeves and are basically drawn into the tube... they're a little thicker than a truly light weight slide but not by much but are closer in weight to a slide with full overtubes.

But if I were in such a position I'd probably want to evaluate if a set of gold tubes gets me closer to my goal or if a 547/562 or 562/562 slide on my tenor would be a better fit. The reason I'd do it would be to get a "darker" sound out of it and both of those also might get me closer to that type of sound. But for now, I don't anticipate taking any classical gigs for at least another year probably with the way Covid is shaping up so that's an exceptionally moot point for me.

[Chatname]

Oh, it’s that bad? That’s horrible! In parts of Europe it’s really starting to open up again with concerts and big audiences…
Yes, I’m with you there with wanting a dark sound for some settings. I have a wide light weight yellow slide with a 2RVE, and it’s great, however I recently tried a regular weight narrow gold brass one from another maker which doesn’t really fit, but I really loved the sound. Very dark in the best of ways. I remembered reading here on the forum that 2RVE with TW47GLW was one of Stephen Shires’s favorite combinations.
So now I would love to compare a T47G to a TW47GLW. Or something like that. Probably won’t happen, just a little curious…

[Matt K]

Oh, it’s that bad? That’s horrible! In parts of Europe it’s really starting to open up again with concerts and big audiences…

Its a combination of me being possibly over cautious, moving to a rural area, and not doing music as my day job. If I were doing music as a source of income I don't know what I'd be doing. I typically receive few classical calls to begin with but if I were to get gigs now, I'd need to drive probably around an ~1-3 hours to the nearest city for below my typical hourly rate and risk being seriously ill. Not worth it for me!

My setup is quite similar. I had a T47LW that I actually just sold on a 2RVET7. The bass crook definitely wouldn't be a good match in my opinion but a narrow or wide slide probably could work well depending on your preference. That said, if you have a TW47LW and wanted to darken the sound up a bit you might consider a gold brass leadpipe or one of the copper ones from Brassark. Its a lot cheaper than a slide. In that setup something like a 2.5GL might be a good fit.

Interestingly, if you liked the sound you may well be able to just swap the tenon out. What maker was it? I have a Yamaha slide that I had the tenon swapped for and use it on my Shires bells. It's a 8820 slide with a 645 upper (525/547). Plays pretty well on the Shires bells.

[Chatname]

I have found it so hard to like the rose brass pipes I have.
I have a MK Mv42, have tried it for a day or two occasionally and I don’t know why but I enjoy yellow so much more… Maybe the seamed copper one from Brass ark would be a better fit for me, but I’m hesitant to order one since I haven’t liked rose brass so much.
I cannot really change the tendon because it belongs to a instrument I want to keep as it is… But I think I’ll be on the lookout for a used one, light weight or not.
Thank you for your input by the way, appreciate it!!

[Matt K]

The MV42 is probably closer to a 1 or 1.5 rather than a 2.5. I find that on Conn style instruments 2, 2.5 or 3 work better and on Bach style horns a 1, 1.5 or 2 to work better. So it isn't surprising to me that the pipe doesn't work as well, assuming you're playing on something that is not similar in taper but in a different material which you may well be.


Makes sense about the tenon! What slide is it? I may be on the lookout for one too

[Chatname]

Actually I got the pipes mixed up, my rose brass from MK is a GR, so it has a wider venturi. The slide is MW, great slide on a fantastic instrument! Just thought I’d try it for fun on the Shires and it was also surprisingly good, as mentioned above. Just got me thinking, hence the question!

[Matt K]

Actually I got the pipes mixed up, my rose brass from MK is a GR, so it has a wider venturi. The slide is MW, great slide on a fantastic instrument! Just thought I’d try it for fun on the Shires and it was also surprisingly good, as mentioned above. Just got me thinking, hence the question!

Oh hah, I probably won't be finding one of those on the used market for awhile. People like them too much!

Didn't know they made a GR tenor pipe until you just mentioned it. Very cool!

[Chatname]

Yes,I use the yellow GR on the MW slide, it’s great!

[Ndwood]

I used to play on a TW47G slide and have also wondered about how the light weight version would compare. The sustained sound was GREAT, especially with my 2.5G pipe, but was more difficult than I wanted to articulate clearly, which is what I’ve heard from other people who have spent some time on Shires slides with gold tubes (not the Alessi, I have no clue how that one fares), and I’ve always wondered how it would do without oversleeves. But I also don’t usually like lightweight slides so who knows. I think it’s interesting that Shires’ Conn-style horns (the VE and Ralph Sauer) both have yellow brass slide tubes.

For what it’s worth, the Selmer Bolero and Largo both sometimes came with gold brass outer slides. My Bolero has gold brass outers (and valve tubing, neckpipe, and outer parts of the tuning slide) with a yellow crook, and my Largo is all yellow brass. The Largo slide is interesting though because it has outer sleeves but about the weight of a Bach LW slide, it’s Conn-width, but looks like it has an oversized/bass crook. It feels pretty open but responds very quickly and I’d be really interested to try one with good brass outers. It also seems like there are some that are Bach-width

Also gotta plug the Brass Ark pipes: I mostly use the 1919 8H on tenor and MV50 in seamed copper on bass and they’re both fantastic. They were the best value upgrades I’ve made for any of my instruments.

[Chatname]

That’s interesting!
In Europe, by the way, the VE model is
often sold with a gold brass slide. Don’t know about the RS. But I believe red/gold brass is more popular in Europe, for some reason.

[Ndwood]

That doesn’t surprise me. At least from the German orchestral musicians I’ve met and heard play I think the slide might work better in situations where some “bloom” to the articulation is preferred over something very pronounced at the start. Traditional German trombones are also much lighter than most American trombones and I think using thinner brass is an important part of that. Maybe the Shires slide tubes are thicker than Conn tubes?

[hornbuilder]

What is the M&W setup that your playing on?

[Chatname]

2Y bell, gold brass narrow slide. Fantastic trombone!!
For me, coming from decades with a nickel slide, it’s been a wonderful discovery with the gold brass slide. Lots of color in the sound, both in soft and loud playing.

[hornbuilder]

Okay. So, a.lightweight gold tube slide, compared to the slide you have, will give more "color" to the sound, will respond slightly quicker, and will produce a slightly more "present" sound around the player. Those features would.come at the expense of a degree of projection, and a lowering of the threshold for maximum volume.

Light slides (at least in my shop) use the same thickness tube as a regular slide, just without the nickel sleeves on the top of the slide.

[Chatname]

Thank you! That was very informative; exactly what I wanted to know! Seems well suited for chamber music, maybe not Bruckner 8.
Will see if I happen to run into a used one eventually.