Silver leadpipe Question. . Please help.

[conn88Hagmann]

I have a an Edwards T2 that has been made into a push fit and it works great on my Conn 47/62 slide.

But. . . I’m used to the conn Remington leadpipe that comes with the interchangeable slides abs want a silver that feels just as open.

Edwards T3 maybe? Or something similar by Shires or Kanstul?

I can get the pipe tread doctored to work for me so that’s not too important.

Can anyone help? I use a B2 in my bad and LOVE it. . .

[Matt K]

Brassark has a few 8/88 pipe copies and offers Sterling Silver now. Shires has a "VE" pipe that they can probably also make in silver. The default for the latter is a remington reciever and the Brassark offerings can be made either way. The "VE" at Shires, I've been told, is similar to a 2.5ish.

[conn88Hagmann]

Thanks Matt.


Is the “2.5” relative to the Edwards pipe sizes?

Is so, what number would the conn Remington pipe come up as?

Thanks again.

[Matt K]

I think Edwards only has 1 2 and 3 sizes. Shires has in between sizes (and in between inbetween sizes - or at least they used to on special order such as 1.75). So probably closer to the 3, but there are also other differences such as length and the exact spots where the taper changes etc. So if you want something that's closer to the remington pipe you have (which I'm assuming you're using to mean an Elkhart 8H or 88H pipe because but I could be totally off), the Shires VE or the Brassark copies are probably your best bet. If you want something used though, you'll probably have more luck looking for a Shires 2.5SS. I actually had one for awhile that I used in my Conn like Shires (2RVET7) that I quite liked.


EDIT: Another thing I forgot to mention; typically the Sterling pipes are a little bit different length than other pipes but I can't remember which way. My bass pipe is SS right now and it's a few inches shorter but I want to say the standard is for it to be a touch longer. Given that the 8H pipes were mostly (exclusively?) yellow brass, or at least not sterling silver to the best of my knowledge, it might not be quite what you are expecting. Silver can be pretty "dense" sounding. And with an already really open pipe the results might not be quite what you were expecting. And that's an expensive experiment with the price of silver these days.

[conn88Hagmann]

Great info Matt. Thank you!!

[griffinben]

Elkhart era leadpipes are shorter than most modern leadpipes. Length of a leadpipe affects the open/closed feel of a leadpipe. Shorter is more open, longer is more stable.

Remington receivers will often accept a morse shank mouthpiece deeper into the receiver which also feels more open compared to a standard morse receiver (most receivers will receive a mouthpiece 1" - 1 1/16"). If you find a leadpipe that has a deeper mouthpiece insertion depth you will get a more open feel.

Matt is spot on, Shires "short" and VE leadpipes are the same length as Elkhart pipes. Standard length is longer. Edwards leadpipes and Shires leadpipes are longer than that. I don't have exact measurements in front of me right now.

Shires would not do short or VE sterling leadpipes because of the attrition rate. Sterling work hardens very quickly and the shorter lengths would often crack or split during manufacture. Longer leadpipes can handle the manufacturing better and do not fail as often, hence Shires Sterling pipes are only available in a longer length.

I hope that helps.

[conn88Hagmann]

It does. Thank you.

I will take a picture as soon as I can, but the edwards silver T2 is very long, even longer than the Equivalent Edwards brass pipe.

The Remington pipe I’m using isn’t an Elkhart, but is the Modern “R” pipe supplied with the modern interchangeable leadpipe slides. I’m also using a 4762 slide so it’s pretty open.

The silver T2SS is awesome everywhere other than the low register, where it feels just a bit tighter. . . . . Not much. But I want good fat production on Bottom F-C for Cello suites etc. Of course it’s always a compromise I know. . . . .




I still think trying an Edwards T3SS may be the way forward.

[CalgaryTbone]

To my knowledge, the #3 Edwards pipe is as close as they get to the Elkhart Conn response, except for maybe some of their more custom options. The Alessi #2 Sterling (not sure what they call it now) is also shorter and more open. I think they make a shorter removable sterling pipe for their new 396AR - that might also be a possibility.

Before you buy anything else, I would suggest that you call or email Edwards. See if they can give you some guidance. Christan and his team are really helpful, and they know their products and can advise you as to what will be the best choice to get the response you're looking for.

Jim Scott

[conn88Hagmann]

That’s a great idea. Thanks Jim.

F5E8B024-25A6-4D35-ACC7-112062B46775.jpeg

The edwards T2 on the Left
Edwards silver T2 middle
Conn “R” on right.

[griffinben]

It does. Thank you.

The Remington pipe I’m using isn’t an Elkhart, but is the Modern “R” pipe supplied with the modern interchangeable leadpipe slides. I’m also using a 4762 slide so it’s pretty open.

The silver T2SS is awesome everywhere other than the low register, where it feels just a bit tighter. . . . . Not much. But I want good fat production on Bottom F-C for Cello suites etc. Of course it’s always a compromise I know. . . . .




I still think trying an Edwards T3SS may be the way forward.

Even with a dual bore slide, the venturi and mouthpiece depth are critical. The different choke/open points of an instrument control different parts of the blow. The venturi balances more immediately with the aperture of your embouchure. You can think of that as fine-tuning buzz balance. The mouthpiece depth can have a distinct affect on how immediately you can blow thew air wider in the instrument; The largest "expansion" of the blow, if you will.
While you can feel the difference at the aperture, the 547/562 usual bore nature allows for a wide expansion of air/sound further down the instrument.

It may sound like semantics, but this is how we tune and balance how an instrument to feel how we want.

With this in mind, what feels tight on the low C's? What mouthpiece are you using? What is the rest of the Conn setup (88H, 88HT, close wrap, open wrap, CL valve?)

Best,
Ben

[conn88Hagmann]

So, I found a shires 2.5 SS leadpipe and I think it’s good!


I use a Doug Elliott 102, H 8 XT.

It’s a standard 88H open wrap, but has a 9 inch bell. (It’s pre HK but effectively is one). Although, I’m not sure if the HK is just a bigger bell or more of a bass flare. This one is wider all the way up, like a 5B.

I can play high as you like, on more or less any setup. So concentration has always been on the low register and big sound as the high stiff takes care of its self. I’m happy to a super Bb. I can make anything sound like a Bach 12 if I close down so haven’t really had to worry about that!

Obvs stamina is an issue on the big stuff, but doing lead in a big band I use a small bone of course, and if I had a pops gig I’d use a smaller set up. I have standard and 47/25 slide too.

[conn88Hagmann]

Anyone have experience of the Alessi T2?

[conn88Hagmann]

CCBCC70B-D2C9-43C3-BBC5-E3DD5DFD21B9.png

Ended up with this. . . .

Doesn’t even have a silver leadpipe!

[harrisonreed]

Or a Hagmann

[conn88Hagmann]

I have an Elkhart with a Hagmann.

It’s awesome.