Bach k valves problem prone?

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stjones
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Bach k valves problem prone?

Post by stjones »

I have heard that Bach k valves are problem prone. One person whose opinion I trust said the thumb lever tends to snap on them frequently. Another person said the rotors themselves are hard to deal with and are a bit like Hagmanns because of the fine tolerances internally.
Anyone know about/encountered these/other problems?
Thank you.
Stephen
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Burgerbob
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Re: Bach k valves problem prone?

Post by Burgerbob »

I'd say they don't have much in common with Hagmanns except for the vertical setup- Hagmanns have problems because they are built very light and have only the 1 bearing. K valves have a heavy nickel casing and bearings on both ends, like a stretched rotor.

Otherwise I'll leave to the experts... I shined the Benn-signal, hopefully he can show up and elucidate for us.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
octavposaune
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Re: Bach k valves problem prone?

Post by octavposaune »

I own and work on K valves and have found a couple issues.

#1: Poor port alignment on the valves themselves. There are no factory witness marks to align the port
#2: Loose spindle bearings, these can be swedged but sometimes the bell has to be removed to do so.
#3: terrible miniballs
#4: the lever saddles may come loose but the levers themselves are not prone to breaking. The thumb paddles on some may unscrew, but not all of them have a molded thumb paddle.

The K valve design has a rather heavy inner core, but they can be made to work quickly enough with professional attention.

About sound. The 42K when properly aligned can play marvelously. They will never be as open as an Axial valve, but something about the weight of the valve and the unique open neckpipe produce a really neat sounding horn. I retrofitted a corp 42B with a K valveset and the results were spectacular. The Saint Sain Organ symphony 1st trombone solo was great with all T3 Bbs.

The valve will hit your neck some depending on how offset your chops are.

About the 50K3s. They are rare, often they are not nearly as good as the 42Ks. Double Ks do not perform as well as most modern valves. They seem stuffy but do however match timbre very well with alternate positions etc... there is a reason they called it the balanced valve. Gb valve Es, Ebs, and Ds sound the same as with the F valve, low Cs and Bs with both valves are easy to match timbres with pedal Bb etc... My LT50K3 is not easy to play but sounds great.

If you have a good tech, do not be afraid to buy one of these horns, as long as you have test played it first.

Benn
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SwissTbone
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Re: Bach k valves problem prone?

Post by SwissTbone »

Burgerbob wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:53 pm I'd say they don't have much in common with Hagmanns except for the vertical setup- Hagmanns have problems because they are built very light and have only the 1 bearing. K valves have a heavy nickel casing and bearings on both ends, like a stretched rotor.

Otherwise I'll leave to the experts... I shined the Benn-signal, hopefully he can show up and elucidate for us.
I know it's off topic. But I keep hearing that Hagmann valves have problems. I play on Hagmann's on a daily base. Double, single, etc. Some of them are 15 years old. Never had a single problem with any of my Hagmann valves.
ƒƒ---------------------------------------------------ƒƒ
Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
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Burgerbob
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Re: Bach k valves problem prone?

Post by Burgerbob »

SwissTbone wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:07 am

I know it's off topic. But I keep hearing that Hagmann valves have problems. I play on Hagmann's on a daily base. Double, single, etc. Some of them are 15 years old. Never had a single problem with any of my Hagmann valves.
Well, your sample size of 1 person has had a good time, I'm sure! Especially since you probably take great care of your horns.

I've used two double Hagmann basses with massive issues. And a few more with no issues. :idk: Definitely more problems than the average rotor. And definitely built lighter, and only with one bearing... no getting around those things.

In any case, those issues are not the same that K valves have... I love my 36K but there's a reason they only made them for a few years.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
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