Brand Loyalty ?

dukesboneman · Post by **dukesboneman** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:10 pm

Just curious with those of us that use multiple horns, Do you stay with one Brand or
do you use multiple brands?
I`m primarily a Bach player (Lt8, 12, Lt12G, Lt16MG, 36, 36B, 42BO,Lt42G)
But..
My Bass is a Yamaha, My Alto is Weril

CalgaryTbone · Post by **CalgaryTbone** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:17 pm

I played mostly Conns for years. Play mostly Edwards these days, but still have most of my Conns and have a soft spot in my heart for them.

Jim Scott

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:30 pm

I love a good Bach. I have 5.5 of them or so. But I also have a Conn, Holton, King, couple valved Yamahas, even a silly German instrument. They all do things well.

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:42 pm

Always liked Kings, but I have almost none of them now (just my 7B). I have a big assortment of Conn, Holton, one Bach, Martin, and Yamaha. If the horn plays well for me, I don't care whose name is on it.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:10 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:42 pm If the horn plays well for me, I don't care whose name is on it.

Though for nostalgia reasons, I like King (purchased a fine 2B in 1958) and Conn (purchased a fine 88H in 1972). For some reason, I've never been fond of the Bach trombones I've tried.

Fidbone · Post by **Fidbone** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:51 pm

I play Rath, Yamaha & King....... Love em all

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:55 pm

None. Whatever I have right now is the best equipment I've ever played on. There would have to be some paradigm shift in playing or construction techniques to need a new trombone, or mine would have to be destroyed.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:05 am

Williams.

Kevbach33 · Post by **Kevbach33** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:20 am

I have no loyalty to any brand of trombone as I own an Olds Ambassador, a Conn 6H, a Holton 168 and a Besson 943GS. Excepting the Olds (which has an Olds 3), for tenor I do have a liking for Bach 5 series mouthpieces (5 small shank, and 5GS, 5GL and 5G large shank).

Vegasbound · Post by **Vegasbound** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:04 am

No, but I tend to like horns more in the King/Conn style

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:18 am

Loyalty....that would be to Mick Rath, who is a friend and I have been involved with Rath projects in the past. I have an R90 contra, R9 bass and R8 bass. I'd love an R1 but I cannot justify the money at my stage.
I own classic Conns and Holtons that I love playing but Rath is the personal connection...and they are very easy to play....
Chris

MrHCinDE · Post by **MrHCinDE** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:22 am

I have no strong preference or loyalty to a single brand and regularly play Conn, Yamaha, Holton and King. I'd be happy to play-test any brand I could try in person at a shop, private sale or from an online seller with a returns policy. Generally I've got on less well with Bach and Edwards but would still consider them if I could try them first, tastes and playing styles change!

If I'm buying untested I feel most comfortable with Conn or Yamaha. Conn because I've rarely found a Conn I didn't enjoy playing, you could say I have a soft spot for them. Yamaha for the excellent consistency at a reasonable price. Both are also not too niche and can be sold or traded easily if they don't work out. I'm not sure that counts as loyalty though.

MStarke · Post by **MStarke** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:17 am

I would not say it's loyalty, but talking about American trombones I love Conn(-style) trombones.
That's why I have a 112h/62h combination, an 88ht, two 6hs and two Blessings that to me play "Conn-like".
I just always preferred how they respond and sound if you would make a black/white comparison to "Bach-like" trombones, knowing there is much more variation than just these two.
Of course I would be open to any of the more costly Conn-like options (Greenhoe, M&W etc.)

At least on the same level is my preference for (older) German trombones.

Kingfan · Post by **Kingfan** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:05 am

I'm a Kingfan probably because the factory was only a few miles from my house, my first trombone was a King and when I moved up I got a hand picked 4B from the designer's (George McCracken) workshop at the factory, and my teacher (asst. principal of the Cleveland Orchestra) played a King. If I had grown up in Elkhart, who knows what I would have been a fan of!

flotrb · Post by **flotrb** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:40 am

In my career, I have owned/played

Conn: 6H, 48H, 5G, 79H, 8H and 72H...was not particular wowed by any of them.
King: 1963 1480 5B Sym Bass, 1975 3B SS, and 1975 1490 7B SS...love every one, sadly, sold the 1480.
Holton: 1962 169 w/Burt Herrick custom mpc...my Baby!

hyperbolica · Post by **hyperbolica** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:39 am

My first real trombone was an Elkhart 88h, and that sound/feel has stuck with me. I generally prefer Conns, but I've fallen in love with Bach, Holton and Olds instruments as well. I currently own Conn, Olds, Kanstul, Courtois, Wessex, and Mack. And I played a King last night that I might be tempted to add. So I guess I have to say "no real loyalty", but I do have preferences.

spencercarran · Post by **spencercarran** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:53 am

The brand of bass that works best for me may not be the brand of tenor that works best for me. Looking for very different things in each, no particular reason to expect the same maker would be my ideal for every category.

elmsandr · Post by **elmsandr** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:22 am

Yes... I try not to, but I do. As a student, I eventually had a Yamaha, but then played a really good Bach... Moved there. Since then, I keep trying to steer away, but I keep coming back to large Bachs (tenor and bass). They respond the way I expect. I keep trying some others (Edwards, Conn), but I find myself wanting the "Bach Sound", not that I feel it sounds different out in the hall, but it sounds different in my chair and I need that feedback to not feel like I'm fighting the horn.

Cheers,
Andy

Thrawn22 · Post by **Thrawn22** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:01 am

I can say without shame that I'm a Conn loyalist. Mostly classic Conns but I'm not adverse to a good playing newer horn. Since my arsenal overfloweth I've been trying to curb my buying habits. Lately I've been trying out some custom ideas but even those are built with mostly Conn parts.

Post by **Matt K** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:13 am

I've been a "loyalist" of several brands... not because I was a loyalist but because I tended to gravitate towards a single maker at various periods of time. Yamaha, then Bach, then King, then for a while I used to be big on Shires stuff.

Now I'm more in Harrison's camp. I've got a King small bore, 2 Yamaha medium bore, 500/525 and 525, a (franken) Shires 547 tenor, and a (franken) Shires 562/578. And a Wessex alto that is currently sitting on Lilbrassco's bench slated for later this year. (He also built the aforementioned Shires valve section).

EOlson9 · Post by **EOlson9** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:36 am

I have 2 Kings and a Conn. Granted, the Conn by sometime next year will be probably 1/2 Butler, so does it really count as a Conn anymore at that point? I guess what I'm saying is if I'm loyal to any brand, it's King.

imsevimse · Post by **imsevimse** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:58 am

Not any loyalty what so ever. I have many horns, many brands. I appreciate every brass instrument.

I play jazz and mostly big bands, and the horn I have used most is a Yamaha 891Z. If I play classical I might use a Bach 36BO. The best commercial bass I own is probably the dependant Kanstul 1662.

/Tom

Cotboneman · Post by **Cotboneman** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:12 pm

I've owned many brands since the 1970's, so I'd best answer that question as yes, in phases and cycles. I started out as a Bach and Selmer guy through the mid-80''s, before moving over to Getzen in the early 90's. I still play two of the three Getzen horns I bought back then. and the 1062FD I would still call my primary instrument.

I started playing in a community band after I retired from teaching and I needed a more narrow focused large bore tenor, like the classic Conn 88H, without the price tag. The Horn Guys steered me into the JP/Rath 3320 as a mid-priced alternative. It's been great.

Lately I'm back to Bach for small ensemble work, with a 42AFG. So yeah, I'd say brand loyalty is cyclical for me, but they have all done well by me musically.

lupusargentus · Post by **lupusargentus** » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:16 pm

Not really. I was all about Bach in college. I do regret selling my 36, the 16 not at all. I'm heavy with Yamaha horns right now partly because prices on used ones are not so inflated. I looked at a vintage 3B recently but bought the 651 because it played as well, was half the cost, and in better condition.

olivegreenink · Post by **olivegreenink** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:15 am

Zero whatsoever. I enjoy the hunt for the diamond in the rough….the underrated….the sleepers. In most cases that’s going to largely be specific to that individual horn. This is consistent with my outlook on most hobbies.

Ive owned dozens of horns. But, of the things that were around say 198O or earlier there is one notable bindspot….I’ve never owned Bach anything (horns…owned a warehouse of Bach mouthpieces of course). I pined after this pristine 42B the first chair senior had when I was a freshman in HS. He literally only used it for concerts.

I am however somewhat feature-loyal. Anything with a red/rose bell is getting a second look from me.

Cheers

fwbassbone · Post by **fwbassbone** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:07 pm

I'm extremely loyal to whatever is working best for me right now. Seriously, if I find a horn that works better for me it becomes my new number 1 horn. I tend to like Bach and Bach style (Greenhoe GB5) bass trombones.

deanmccarty · Post by **deanmccarty** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:44 pm

I absolutely love my Rath trombones…
R10
R3F (Rotax)
R4F (Hagmann)
R9 (stacked Rotax)
JPRath alto

I do have a non-Rath on order… a Jürgen Voigt Contrabass… quality instrument at a significantly lower price point from the Rath… for me, I wanted a good instrument (non-Chinese), with a good reputation, but under $10K… I’m anxiously awaiting my order!

I loved the Rath R90, but just couldn’t do the price tag.

I have always been a “loyalist” with my horns. Before playing Rath, all of my horns were Shires, before that Bach, and before that Conn. For me the feel and tendencies are all similar with the same brand.

lewbone92 · Post by **lewbone92** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:42 pm

No loyalty here. I own both a King and Yamaha.

PaulT · Post by **PaulT** » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:55 pm

I trust Yamaha.

I trust that anything they put their name on will be quality. From the top of their line to the bottom, Yamaha is quality you can count on. And the bottom matters, to me. Yamaha will not produce a crappy student horn and dump it on the market. Whether it is a trombone, a flute, a clarinet, drum set, piano, saxophone, a "you name it", Yamaha's budget line will be a quality line. That's impressive and honorable.

Others here have more experience, but I've been involved in one way or another with several high school band programs and one large music store, and across the board, I've been told that Yamaha is the one brand that hasn't disappointed or done a lemon dump. The company has integrity. They build good stuff and they stand by it.

Having said that, I did just buy a Jupiter XO 1632 (love it), but that's because Quinn the Eskimo is darn near giving them away, and I trust Quinn as well. Everything he has sold me has been exactly what he said it was (four horns, so far)

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:06 am

Yamaha has great QC but that doesn't mean all their designs are great for everyone. I tried a new Xeno large bore when it came out, a beauty. I can't remember the exact model but it had a soldered bead. For me, it played terribly -- dead, almost like the valve was half closed. Others were raving about the same specimen though. If only great build quality also unequivocally meant great playability.

There are other older Yamaha models that were taking design elements from the 88H that I really enjoyed playing on. Their euphs are crazy good.

TheConnsequence · Post by **TheConnsequence** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:46 am

1900s to 1940s Conns.

I also have a Bach model 4 that I play for fun sometimes. But the sound just pops right out of a Conn in my opinion.

Mv2541 · Post by **Mv2541** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:42 pm

I am not loyal to a brand, but having multiple horns of the same brand can be super beneficial if the positions and intonation tendencies are similar. Just one less thing to worry about.

Finetales · Post by **Finetales** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:47 pm

I didn't choose the Conn life...the Conn life chose me.

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:45 pm

baileyman · Post by **baileyman** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:14 pm

I'm afraid to try anything other than my little Bachs lest a good reason show up to play something else. And that would be expensive...

brtnats · Post by **brtnats** » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:22 am

Yes, but largely for practical reasons. I think it’s easier to double on horns made by the same manufacturer because the tuning is more similar across the sizes. I kind of fell into a “matched set” because of that, but I didn’t actively seek it out.

deanmccarty · Post by **deanmccarty** » Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:52 am

brtnats wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:22 am Yes, but largely for practical reasons. I think it’s easier to double on horns made by the same manufacturer because the tuning is more similar across the sizes. I kind of fell into a “matched set” because of that, but I didn’t actively seek it out.

Exactly!

WGWTR180 · Post by **WGWTR180** » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:33 am

brtnats wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:22 am Yes, but largely for practical reasons. I think it’s easier to double on horns made by the same manufacturer because the tuning is more similar across the sizes. I kind of fell into a “matched set” because of that, but I didn’t actively seek it out.

This might help some but is not an issue for me at all.

King 2BSS
Conn Elkhart 88H
Bach 50B
Multiple Holton TR 180s

whitbey · Post by **whitbey** » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:59 am

Edwards has earned my loyalty. The horns play great. They are great help in making changes to the horns. There warranty has proven great. They keep innovating. And they are an American company owned by real people.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:20 am

The owners of Eastman (and the employees) are real people too

Savio · Post by **Savio** » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:32 am

I like Conn and my new Yamaha. But I believe brand loyalty is more important for high end players. They might feel they have more responsibility because they are more exposed? I don't think anyone cares about what I play. Only my wife if I buy too many.
Leif

sporto · Post by **sporto** » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:01 pm

I wouldn't say loyalty but I have horns from 5 different makers and I like the Martins the best.

mbtrombone · Post by **mbtrombone** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:20 am

Just found this post because I was thinking about brand loyalty. I do agree with the tuning thing being just a touch easier mainly because I am lazy and the muscle memory is there for the most part. don’t get me wrong I use my ears a ton, but it is just a tad bit of laziness when I am practicing alone with solo rep.

As far as brands, I play Shires Bass, and Large Tenor, matched slide designs, valves, and bell designs and materials when purchased. In the last 2 decades they have begun to drift apart. Bronze custom bell on the tenor, and I want to get rid of my axial long term on the tenor, and replace the slide with a smaller slide crook. The bass will be getting a bigger slide in the near future, and a radically different bell. Oddly the mouthpieces settled on Hammond Design on both though.

I still have my first horn a Conn 18H, and my first Large bore a Bach 42BOG. Had a Getzen 1047FR, Conn 88HTO, and a Conn 112H, but they were sold to fund the Shires Bass in my younger more rash undergrad days. Euphoniums are a Besson New Standard, and a Willson 2905. Marching Trombone is an Olds. Had a King 2B but traded that for 4 trips to Korean BBQ, best trade ever!

So I guess I am fairly loyal to Shires, but now I just want something that sounds good and is fun to play in as many settings as possible.