M&W Horns?

[gr8job123]

I’ve been talking with some friends about horns (not interested in buying anything) and M&W came up. Can anyone who has owned or played one tell me their thoughts on them? I hadn’t heard of them too much until just a couple days ago, but one of my friends said they think they play better than the newer shires.
Just looking for info

[Matt K]

Absolutely 100% top-quality craftsmanship. If I was in the market for a new horn, I'd totally consider heading over there to get fitted.

[hyperbolica]

I played one of their early 525 bore instruments, and I thought it was one of the 2 best I've played of that bore. The other great one was a Rath R3. I thought the horn I played was better than an equivalent shires. My taste in that size horn runs maybe a little lighter than most. Gorgeous finish.

[harrisonreed]

The fit and finish is perfect. The most beautiful horn I've ever held. I tried a rose brass and yellow brass .547, and they're alto.

Played like a flat Sam Adams, for my taste. It could have just been where the booth was located in the room on that particular day. There is no way a horn that well built just plays "bad". The only thing I can think of besides the booth location is that they are mouthpiece sensitive, or that all the M&Ws they had on the floor were soldered bead -- the horns I was loving that day (and in general) were all unsoldered.

I'd love to try them again.

[Finetales]

I've played a few basses and .547 tenors and they were all fantastic. If I needed a new all-purpose bass trombone to replace my indy 72H and had the cash, I'd probably go to M&W first (especially as they can do 72H proportions!).

[elmsandr]

Had them build a replacement slide for a project Fuchs... the slide is beautiful, more like the original than I was hoping for, and plays amazingly. The taper actually works with my Bach horns as well and this is just an amazing slide to have there. Really a special piece of brass.

Need to send Matt the bell section now to finish that project. Maybe if I type this enough I’ll actually do it.

Cheers,
Andy

[Burgerbob]

I played them at ITF 2017. They seemed very well made. My impressions at the time were the same as Harrison's... nothing bad, but nothing that inspired me. I'd love to play them again now.

[castrubone]

I took one out on a trial a couple years ago. One with a red brass bell and yellow slide, basically an 88H style instrument. Build quality seemed fine to me, something close to Edwards quality...but the one I tried had a rotor issue and needed to go back to the factory FWIW. Playing wise it was also fine, but nothing that wowed me enough to justify spending that much money to keep it.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

From a construction standpoint, I am extremely impressed with the M&W instruments. A couple of them have come through my shop for chemical cleans and dent work. The parts are assembled with perfect alignment and attention to detail that I do not see in other brands. The metal is excellent and moves exactly the way high-quality brass should move when removing dents. These are solid horns built with substantial metal and you can feel it when you hold them and play them.

From a playing standpoint, I think they are quite good.......but not an exact match for me. However, I believe that every M&W large bore tenor I have ever played was equipped with a Conn-bore slide crook (similar bore as the outer slide tubes). I have always had better luck with an oversized (Bach 42 style) slide crook. I imagine if I ever play an M&W large bore tenor with an oversized slide crook, it could be a horn that catches my attention.

[WGWTR180]

I took one out on a trial a couple years ago. One with a red brass bell and yellow slide, basically an 88H style instrument. Build quality seemed fine to me, something close to Edwards quality...but the one I tried had a rotor issue and needed to go back to the factory FWIW. Playing wise it was also fine, but nothing that wowed me enough to justify spending that much money to keep it.

Build quality is far better than Edwards.

[goldendomer04]

I took one out on a trial a couple years ago. One with a red brass bell and yellow slide, basically an 88H style instrument. Build quality seemed fine to me, something close to Edwards quality...but the one I tried had a rotor issue and needed to go back to the factory FWIW. Playing wise it was also fine, but nothing that wowed me enough to justify spending that much money to keep it.

Build quality is far better than Edwards.

Big +1 here...

[SwissTbone]

Build quality is far better than Edwards.

I had the good luck of having an Edwards Alessi and a M&W at the same time for some weeks and I played them quite extensively.

Both where very well built, but yes, the M&W was better built. Maybe the best built horn I have ever seen. Really good craftsmanship. No flaws. Great lacquer.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

[/quote]
Build quality is far better than Edwards.
[/quote]

I agree on this. When I measured those M&W horns in my shop, everything about the construction was perfect. Handslide....absolutely parallel. Main tuning slide and F-attachment tuning slide......absolutely parallel. It is rare to see a trombone assembled with everything parallel to the .001 inch. That level of detail can really make a difference in how an instrument plays.

[harrisonreed]

>>Build quality is far better than Edwards.

I agree on this. When I measured those M&W horns in my shop, everything about the construction was perfect. Handslide....absolutely parallel. Main tuning slide and F-attachment tuning slide......absolutely parallel. It is rare to see a trombone assembled with everything parallel to the .001 inch. That level of detail can really make a difference in how an instrument plays.

Mechanically, maybe. We don't hear with our eyes though. The day I tried everything side by side at ATW, the Edwards Oft model blew everything else in that category out of the water, followed by Rath. M&W didn't register on the Richter scale. The (then) new King 3BF edition blew the small bores out of the water, although the Michael Davis + model was up there. And Shires ran away with the altos, followed by Rath. The new Elkhart 36H was laughably bad, and the Eastlake 36H I had brought with me was up there with the Shires altos -- almost as playable intonation-wise, and just a different sound that somehow feels more like me even though I know the Shires would probably appeal to more people's ears.


In every case, I'll tell you exactly what the difference was -- you blew into those horns and a lot of beautiful sound came out without a lot of effort. The horns let you feel some feedback. On the M&W, the new Conn's, and Courtois, you felt the horn taking what you put in, but you didn't get anything out.

[hornbuilder]

Gr8job123.

I am the owner/craftsman at M&W.

Before becoming an instrument maker, I was the bass trombonist with the Australian Opera for 16 years. I moved to the US in 2006 to work for the Greenhoe company in Jackson, WI for the last 6 1/2 years of their operation. I worked at Getzen for 12 months after Greenhoe closed, assembling all models of Getzen/Edwards trombones.

In 2014 M&W was formed with Michael McLemore, who had also worked at Greenhoe. Michael left M&W just over a year ago, due to physical health issues.

M&W trombones are their own unique design, and are not "copies" of any other brand. There are many options available, and the instrument can be built to suit an individual players desires. Being such a small company allows a great deal of flexibility of concept and product.

Being a 1 man shop means that each instrument receives the utmost care in production. There are no shortcuts taken. Nothing goes out that I would not be happy to take on the gig myself, and I have very high expectations of my equipment!

The design/construction intent of these instruments is to create a trombone that responds quickly, creates a clean, pure sound, and projects sound with a minimum of effort required of the player. This is achieved by focusing on the fine-ness of construction. Making sure that joints are stress free with no "gaps" between parts underneath the ferrules, and ensuring that tuning slides are perfectly parrallel, allows the instrument to resonate and transfer energy through the entire "system" in the most efficient and effective way possible. These are not the type of instruments that you have to "drive" or "muscle" the horn to get the best out of them, rather they allow the player to focus on the musical line, as opposed to "making" the horn do what you want it to do.

There are examples of M&Ws being played with the New York City Ballet, on Broadway, the Stockholm Phil. And orchestras throughout the US, Germany, Japan, Sweden and Australia.

Should you ever be in the situation that you're in the market for a new horn, or even just curious, I would be more than happy to talk with you and discuss options. I am very proud of these instruments, they are a labour of love for me.

Cheers.

[WGWTR180]

>>Build quality is far better than Edwards.

I agree on this. When I measured those M&W horns in my shop, everything about the construction was perfect. Handslide....absolutely parallel. Main tuning slide and F-attachment tuning slide......absolutely parallel. It is rare to see a trombone assembled with everything parallel to the .001 inch. That level of detail can really make a difference in how an instrument plays.

Mechanically, maybe. We don't hear with our eyes though. The day I tried everything side by side at ATW, the Edwards Oft model blew everything else in that category out of the water, followed by Rath. M&W didn't register on the Richter scale. The (then) new King 3BF edition blew the small bores out of the water, although the Michael Davis + model was up there. And Shires ran away with the altos, followed by Rath. The new Elkhart 36H was laughably bad, and the Eastlake 36H I had brought with me was up there with the Shires altos -- almost as playable intonation-wise, and just a different sound that somehow feels more like me even though I know the Shires would probably appeal to more people's ears.


In every case, I'll tell you exactly what the difference was -- you blew into those horns and a lot of beautiful sound came out without a lot of effort. The horns let you feel some feedback. On the M&W, the new Conn's, and Courtois, you felt the horn taking what you put in, but you didn't get anything out.

Build quality IS very important. Do we hear with our eyes? No but everyone on here will have a different opinion on how each instrument plays because we as players are different. Your assessments regarding playability are yours. Others are theirs. All are valid.

[Fidbone]

Folk that diss custom horns are just BWAAAAAAH
The whole point of a custom instrument is that you CAN find something that will blow everything else out of the water as Harrisonreed keeps saying.
Otherwise pick a tried and tested off the shelf instrument and learn how to play it......

[WGWTR180]

Folk that diss custom horns are just BWAAAAAAH
The whole point of a custom instrument is that you CAN find something that will blow everything else out of the water as Harrisonreed keeps saying.
Otherwise pick a tried and tested off the shelf instrument and learn how to play it......

Who's dissing custom horns? And why can't someone like a certain custom horn and not like another?

[Fidbone]

There's a lot to choose from out there.
I've heard many folk say they don't like "insert maker" horns without even trying to find a combination of parts that suit.

[WGWTR180]

There's a lot to choose from out there.
I've heard many folk say they don't like "insert maker" horns without even trying to find a combination of parts that suit.

So once again, on this thread, who's dissing custom horns? I'll admit there are certain custom horns I prefer over others yet I do not play one. That's not a diss-it's called personal choice. Correct?

[Fidbone]

There's a lot to choose from out there.
I've heard many folk say they don't like "insert maker" horns without even trying to find a combination of parts that suit.

So once again, on this thread, who's dissing custom horns? I'll admit there are certain custom horns I prefer over others yet I do not play one. That's not a diss-it's called personal choice. Correct?

There are slight dissing connotations throughout this thread.
I'm talking in general, lot's of folk do diss custom horns without trying all combinations to find "The One".
YMMV.

[BGuttman]

There are players who can discern the differences between various custom instruments. All of them are compromises of some sort or another and will favor certain players over others. There are players (generally not professional) who won't be able to discern the differences and it really doesn't matter which of them (if any) they choose to play.

I think we can all agree that M&W horns have stellar build quality (as do many other "boutique" horns). The set of compromises Matt has chosen in his design may fit some players better than others. As a lower tier player if offered an M&W I would accept it and find it to be an improvement. As an established player Harrison may find it doesn't perfectly align with his playing and he rejects it.

Back to the OP: they are extremely well built instruments and may be an excellent choice for you. You really need to play one to be sure.

[WGWTR180]

So once again, on this thread, who's dissing custom horns? I'll admit there are certain custom horns I prefer over others yet I do not play one. That's not a diss-it's called personal choice. Correct?

There are slight dissing connotations throughout this thread.
I'm talking in general, lot's of folk do diss custom horns without trying all combinations to find "The One".
YMMV.

Interesting. The one person you support throughout this entire conversation listed the most instrument makers and mentioned what didn't work for him-actually called an instrument and actually called an instrument "laughingly bad.". As I said it's his opinion that counts only for him. I think you're reading too much into comments here. Other threads-not relevant.

[harrisonreed]

I'm willing to try them again. Would like to actually. Just somewhere other than that weird room at ATW. That day they had only two of their setups -- if I could go in and fiddle with the parts I think M&W would have something I'm better suited for than the models they had that day.

As for the new Elkhart 36H .... Sorry. I'm sorry I called it bad. It was 6 feet away from the best alto I had ever played, AND I stacked it up against my own 36H. It was not good.

[fwbassbone]

I played a couple of their basses at ITF 2019. Very well built just my not cup of tea. We are so lucky to have many well built trombones. Choose the one you like and make music.

[Matt K]

The leadpipe in the 36H definitely works better, in my experience, with a non-standard small shank. I think that a lot of the issues that arise from it, particularly if you are just trying horns out on the floor, stems from that. At least that's been my direct experience. I swapped out the pipe and loved mine, while I had it. I may have been spoiled by it, even. It was Conrad Herwig's horn when he was a CS artist. I'm sure they picked out a good one for him!