Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4487
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by harrisonreed »

And it's free!
Bach5G
Posts: 2270
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:10 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Bach5G »

Priceless?
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4526
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Burgerbob »

Looks like the Gen II 88H valve cap. Wonder if they just used that rotor with different port arrangement.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
Thrawn22
Posts: 1278
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:18 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Thrawn22 »

There's more thought put that horn then the 88HNV. Sorta goes to proving my point where Selmers priorities are.
6H (K series)
6H (early 60s)
4H/5H custom bell
78H ('53)
78H (K series)
78H/36BG /2547 slide
8H
88HN
71H (dependant valves)
72H
35H alto (K series)
Posaunus
Posts: 3424
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:54 pm
Location: California

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Posaunus »

Burgerbob wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:44 pm Looks like the Gen II 88H valve cap. Wonder if they just used that rotor with different port arrangement.
From Bach:
"Peter Steiner - .562" traditional rotor with open-port X-brace wrap. The wrap design is compact for opera pit work, allows an open feel with its straight tubes, and the X-gives an additional bracing point for center and projection. Water dump is quick through the rotor. Rotor is based on the Conn Gen 2 with improved portage."
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by tbonesullivan »

That valve cover definitely looks like the Conn Gen 2, which I think is the same one used on the Benge Trombones as well.

I still have no idea why Bach didn't decide to improve their valve long ago, but then again, Bach's motto always seems to have been "we designed it so well in the past that we never have to redesign it".
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4487
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by harrisonreed »

They do the X-wrap but don't add the B pull feature from the kissbone? Lame.

Oh wait both of those things would be stealing someone else's idea. Or is it OK because it's Bach?
Tbarh
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:59 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Tbarh »

Wow... Lightweight brass version available... Lots of other options too.. 👍😁
chromebone
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by chromebone »

Burgerbob wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:44 pm Looks like the Gen II 88H valve cap. Wonder if they just used that rotor with different port arrangement.
I think It’s just the King 4B valve. Old wine in new bottles.
whitbey
Posts: 607
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:44 am
Location: Rochester Michigan North of Detroit.
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by whitbey »

Looks like the Kiss bone wrap.
Edwards Sterling bell 525/547
Edwards brass bell 547/562
Edwards Jazz w/ Ab valve 500"/.508"
Markus Leuchter Alto Trombone
Bass Bach 50 Bb/F/C dependent.
Cerveny oval euphonium
Full list in profile
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4487
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by harrisonreed »

whitbey wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:55 am Looks like the Kiss bone wrap.
Yeah, but without the key feature! How could you leave out the B pull?
User avatar
sferg
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:02 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by sferg »

For spring 2021 Bach is offering these new A47 Artisan trombone options:

25 hand slides
Bore: .525", .525-.547", .547", .547-.562", .562"
Metal options:
  • all brass with nickel oversleeves like 42
  • LW brass
  • brass w/nickel crook
  • LW brass w/nickel crook
  • LW all-nickel like LT42
A47 hand slides now include 3 threaded leadpipes

14 bells
  • B47 - Artisan mandrel: brass, gold brass, or LW gold brass, with flat rim wire
  • B42 - Stradivarius mandrel: brass, gold brass, or LW gold brass, with standard rim wire
  • B88 - Conn mandrel: rose brass
All available with fixed or screw flare. Screw bell hard case is available.

3 valvesets and...

A47BO - rotary, standard wrap
A47X - rotary, X-wrap
A47I - infinity axial
A47 - straight neckpipe

3 tuning slides
brass, gold brass, nickel

The Peter Steiner model A47XPS includes .547" standard hand slide, SB47GLW LW gold brass bell with screw flare, X-valveset, brass tuning slide and hard case. Also available as A47X with yellow brass fixed bell.
User avatar
tombone21
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:19 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by tombone21 »

Mannnnnnnn I gotta know what's up with that B88 bell
Posaunus
Posts: 3424
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:54 pm
Location: California

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Posaunus »

tombone21 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:35 pm Mannnnnnnn I gotta know what's up with that B88 bell
Hmm. B88 bell - Conn mandrel: rose brass. Perhaps Conn trombones will eventually blend into Bach? I think Conn-Selmer believes that Bach is their strongest brand name. :idk:

General Motors dumped Pontiac and Olds, Buick will be next; Ford dumped Mercury, Lincoln may be next; Chrysler dumped DeSoto, Plymouth, and (pretty much) Dodge.

It may be that C-S wants to streamline the trombone catalog, and offer lots of "custom" options for the Bach line of trombones that could incorporate former Bach (and King?) features.

Note that there are no more Holton trombones, only a few Holton French horns left, perhaps a few baritones, euphoniums, & tubas. Conn and King trumpets, etc. are (I think) now pretty rare. How many brands of tubas does C-S want to sell? ... Corporate watchword: Simplify in hard times!

Anyone here have any inside information or juicy gossip / speculation?
chromebone
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by chromebone »

They still sell a lot of 88H’s and 3B’s; they are even coming out with a new 88H variant, so I don’t thing the Conn or King brands are going anywhere, especially since Conn is half the the name of the company.
They are trying to compete with Shires and Edwards, but they don’t want to make the investment in making the infinite variety of bells that those companies do; offering the Conn mandrel is an inexpensive way to give more options. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “Artisan” mandrel was simply a Holton or King mandrel they already laying around.
The big bucks for them are school and marching instruments. They make way more money pushing a sale of 6 $8000 sousaphones out the door to a high school or university than they do on a Peter Steiner trombone.
It is sad, though, CS has pretty well destroyed a lot of great brands and models through the years all in the name of corporate streamlining.
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4487
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by harrisonreed »

Conn Sousas sound good though, FWIW
User avatar
spencercarran
Posts: 626
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:02 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by spencercarran »

Egads that price is steep. (Showing $5300 at Hornguys now... you could have Matthew Walker handbuild a completely custom horn for that money, no?)
Posaunus wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:06 amNote that there are no more Holton trombones, only a few Holton French horns left, perhaps a few baritones, euphoniums, & tubas. Conn and King trumpets, etc. are (I think) now pretty rare. How many brands of tubas does C-S want to sell? ... Corporate watchword: Simplify in hard times!

Anyone here have any inside information or juicy gossip / speculation?
Is Holton officially dead? Last I heard they'd moved production into the Elkhart facility with a smattering of Bach components.

Also curious to know what's going on in Eastlake; I remember reading that facility was closed for COVID last summer but I assume they still want to sell some school tubas for this fall.
chromebone
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by chromebone »

There are no Holton trombones on their website anymore. I think C-S mostly bought Leblanc for its woodwind brands and decided to let the Holton name die on the vine.
castrubone
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:55 am

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by castrubone »

chromebone wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:50 am There are no Holton trombones on their website anymore. I think C-S mostly bought Leblanc for its woodwind brands and decided to let the Holton name die on the vine.
Still on the website. I know the Holton bass trombone actually sells pretty well and is one of the top selling bass bones for schools still.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
chromebone
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by chromebone »

I tried the sort by brand and there wasn’t even a category for Holton Trombones under the Holton brand name. Maybe C-S could use the money they’re saving by recycling old designs and upgrade their sorry website a little.
User avatar
spencercarran
Posts: 626
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:02 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by spencercarran »

They haven't added the new Bach or Conn trombones to the site yet, it seems. And the Bach 39 alto isn't listed anywhere I can find - has it been discontinued, or is their website just bad?
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4526
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Burgerbob »

The 47 bell flare is a custom flare, modeled after a Mt Vernon 42 with a bit narrower bell throat, different thickness profile, and a French bead. It's not something they had lying around.

The new 88 bell compatibility is just them trying to compete with the boutiques. You can mix and match the "Bach" and "Conn" components with Shires, why not with the real thing?
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
chromebone
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by chromebone »

I think the 39 has been discontinued, it used to be on the site and I don’t see any dealers with any in stock. they were selling way more 34/36 h’s. The 39 is a great sounding horn, but it’s a beast to play in tune.

And yes, their website is just awful. Really inexcusable for such a large company. They don’t update it, it’s not attractive to look at, and it’s difficult to navigate.
User avatar
EOlson9
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:34 pm
Location: La Crosse, WI

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by EOlson9 »

So, I wasn't interested in this horn until now. Since they added an Conn 88 bell as an option, and I could get a dual bore .547/.562 slide with axial flow valve, that makes me raise an eyebrow. That sort of price point is way above what my wife would let me spend on a trombone though!
Baritone Horn, Winona Brass Band
Euphonium La Crosse Concert Band
Euphonium, Tuba, Westby City Band
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4487
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by harrisonreed »

chromebone wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:53 am I think the 39 has been discontinued, it used to be on the site and I don’t see any dealers with any in stock. they were selling way more 34/36 h’s. The 39 is a great sounding horn, but it’s a beast to play in tune.

And yes, their website is just awful. Really inexcusable for such a large company. They don’t update it, it’s not attractive to look at, and it’s difficult to navigate.
Hickeys still has it listed.
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4487
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by harrisonreed »

spencercarran wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:42 am Egads that price is steep. (Showing $5300 at Hornguys now... you could have Matthew Walker handbuild a completely custom horn for that money, no?)
Yeah but it's what Peter Steiner plays!
O_Rly_3_Burn.gif
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 5891
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by BGuttman »

I could play Joe Alessi's horn and still not sound like Joe Alessi :tongue:
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
User avatar
TheBoneRanger
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:55 pm
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by TheBoneRanger »

When are the 50’s going to get some love?

Andrew
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4526
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Burgerbob »

TheBoneRanger wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:23 pm When are the 50’s going to get some love?

Andrew
I think they are so much lower volume than the 42s that it's pretty far down the order. I'd love to see a HUGE streamlining of that particular model range...
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
User avatar
sferg
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:02 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by sferg »

TheBoneRanger wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:23 pm When are the 50’s going to get some love?

Andrew
I found 50 love in the new 50AF3 with Infinity rotors and Euro bracing. The 50AF3 bells are modular like Artisan and they offer 4 diff. 50 bells in 2 sizes. 50 and LT50 hand slides now have optional threaded leadpipes, and if you substitute an Artisan .562" hand slide, there are even more hand slide options.
MrHCinDE
Posts: 715
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:00 am
Location: Ludwigsburg, Germany

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by MrHCinDE »

spencercarran wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:42 am Egads that price is steep. (Showing $5300 at Hornguys now... you could have Matthew Walker handbuild a completely custom horn for that money, no?)
I had the same thought (substitute Mick Rath for Matthew Walker).

You have to wonder whether there is enough of a market for modular horns in the $5k+ bracket to justify this range and whether those looking to buy in that price category will prefer Bach over the many other options.

Good luck to them, I‘d love to try one but based on other Bach instruments I‘ve tried in showrooms over the years but I’d have a hard time shelling out a retail price of 6000€+ i.e. the same as other Artisan models over here in Germany, even the ‚offer price’ of 4400€ that other Artisan models are available for would be hard to justify.

Is there any reason to suggest the Artisan range has a better QA and consistency than the standard range?
Tbarh
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:59 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Tbarh »

Burgerbob wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:52 am The 47 bell flare is a custom flare, modeled after a Mt Vernon 42 with a bit narrower bell throat, different thickness profile, and a French bead. It's not something they had lying around.

The new 88 bell compatibility is just them trying to compete with the boutiques. You can mix and match the "Bach" and "Conn" components with Shires, why not with the real thing?
Are the 88 Bell option a two piece (like a real Conn) or a one piece like a Bach?
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4526
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Burgerbob »

Tbarh wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 12:14 am
Burgerbob wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:52 am The 47 bell flare is a custom flare, modeled after a Mt Vernon 42 with a bit narrower bell throat, different thickness profile, and a French bead. It's not something they had lying around.

The new 88 bell compatibility is just them trying to compete with the boutiques. You can mix and match the "Bach" and "Conn" components with Shires, why not with the real thing?
Are the 88 Bell option a two piece (like a real Conn) or a one piece like a Bach?
Assuming here, but it's probably literally an gen II 88H flare with a slightly different receiver and Artisan mounting hardware. Spun just like all the others but ends up in a different place in the factory. No need to make it complicated!
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
Slidemo
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:33 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Slidemo »

They don't even need to change the TS receiver, they are the same. I had a 42G bell interchangable on my 88H for a while. It's back on a 42T now.

IIRC Old man Bach took measurements from the Conn's at the time when designing his Trombones so it seems we have just come full circle.
RJMason
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:04 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by RJMason »

I’m excited for the new possibilities. I’ve always wanted an 88H bell on a Bach setup. There are definitely players that after trying modern boutique brands end up going back to (usually heavily modified) Bach or Conn setups. The sounds are classic, but the lack of options lead to experimenting in repair shops. Excited to try to some direct from the factory, especially the new .525 slides, when I can.
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3944
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Matt K »

RJMason wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:59 am I’m excited for the new possibilities. I’ve always wanted an 88H bell on a Bach setup. There are definitely players that after trying modern boutique brands end up going back to (usually heavily modified) Bach or Conn setups. The sounds are classic, but the lack of options lead to experimenting in repair shops. Excited to try to some direct from the factory, especially the new .525 slides, when I can.
I'm definitely one of those people. I played a Bach 42 for awhile, then I swapped out a Shires slide, etc. until I ultimately ended up on the Shires "Conn 88" setup with a 2RVET7 + Rotor + T47LW. So far that's been the horn I've had in my stable the longest... ever. I think I've had that same setup for 7 or so years now.

I played around with some other setups while I still had the Bach parts and the "standard" parts of the setup definitely worked better for me on either of them. I had a 42 bell mounted for Shires, Shires Thayer valve, TB47YC and the other set of components. Both setups played well, but when I started mixing and matching parts... not so much. 2RVET7 + Thayer + TB47 was absolutely awful for me.
Tbarh
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:59 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Tbarh »

Burgerbob wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 12:35 am
Tbarh wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 12:14 am
Are the 88 Bell option a two piece (like a real Conn) or a one piece like a Bach?
Assuming here, but it's probably literally an gen II 88H flare with a slightly different receiver and Artisan mounting hardware. Spun just like all the others but ends up in a different place in the factory. No need to make it complicated!
Exactly... I thaught so too... Makes it more of a Conn than a Bach then.. 😉
User avatar
elmsandr
Posts: 957
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:43 pm
Location: S.E. Michigan
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by elmsandr »

MrHCinDE wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 11:55 pm
spencercarran wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:42 am Egads that price is steep. (Showing $5300 at Hornguys now... you could have Matthew Walker handbuild a completely custom horn for that money, no?)
I had the same thought (substitute Mick Rath for Matthew Walker).

You have to wonder whether there is enough of a market for modular horns in the $5k+ bracket to justify this range and whether those looking to buy in that price category will prefer Bach over the many other options.

Good luck to them, I‘d love to try one but based on other Bach instruments I‘ve tried in showrooms over the years but I’d have a hard time shelling out a retail price of 6000€+ i.e. the same as other Artisan models over here in Germany, even the ‚offer price’ of 4400€ that other Artisan models are available for would be hard to justify.

Is there any reason to suggest the Artisan range has a better QA and consistency than the standard range?
The problem here is... when you want to sound like a Bach it really kinda has to be a Bach. Tried making an Edwards sound like a 50B for years. Even put a 50B flare on it. Sounded pretty good. Got closer. Eventually found a Bach and spent near this amount making it into what I wanted it to be.

So, yes, there is a market. How big is it and how well will they be able to fill it? That is the question.

Cheers,
Andy
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3944
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Matt K »

I think the amount of equipment wonks is heavily over-represented here (*cough* me *cough*). There are a lot of people who just want to pick up a horn that plays reasonably well and make no decisions or only decisions they find to be minimally predictive such as bell material. There's really nothing inherently wrong with either approach but yeah... if I had the cash and wanted to drop it on a horn, I'd probably not reach for modular Bach offerings first. But who knows, maybe these things blow the socks off of people and everyone starts playing them.
skeletal
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:51 am

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by skeletal »

There's 3 modular makers (Bach Artisan, Shires, Edwards) and three boutique fixed makers (Schilke Greenhoe, M&W, BAC) plus a smattering of euro brands. Surely there's not enough market share to go around. This feels like a passion project for a Conn-selmer executive there is no way they are going to recoup tooling and development costs anytime soon.
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4526
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Burgerbob »

skeletal wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 6:49 pm There's 3 modular makers (Bach Artisan, Shires, Edwards) and three boutique fixed makers (Schilke Greenhoe, M&W, BAC) plus a smattering of euro brands. Surely there's not enough market share to go around. This feels like a passion project for a Conn-selmer executive there is no way they are going to recoup tooling and development costs anytime soon.
I'm sure they have more access to the sales numbers than our guesses.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
hornbuilder
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 9:20 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by hornbuilder »

skeletal wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 6:49 pm There's 3 modular makers (Bach Artisan, Shires, Edwards) and three boutique fixed makers (Schilke Greenhoe, M&W, BAC)
Just to clarify... M&W do both detachable and non-detachable bells. Customer choice. And screw bells for both options as well.

And for what it's worth, if you look at the horn in question, it is made up of pretty much standard Conn and Bach parts. Obviously the wrap is new, but that isn't "terribly" expensive to tool up for. A couple grand, if that. (depending on if Bach have machining capabilities on site, or if they have tooling made for them.)
Matthew Walker
Owner/Craftsman, M&W Custom Trombones, LLC, Jackson, Wisconsin.
Former Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia, 1991-2006
User avatar
spencercarran
Posts: 626
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:02 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by spencercarran »

hornbuilder wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:28 pmAnd for what it's worth, if you look at the horn in question, it is made up of pretty much standard Conn and Bach parts. Obviously the wrap is new, but that isn't "terribly" expensive to tool up for. A couple grand, if that. (depending on if Bach have machining capabilities on site, or if they have tooling made for them.)
Which makes the listed price tag that much more confusing. If the big innovation here is the ability to mix-and-match their existing components... that's cool, I guess, but is it more than five grand cool?
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4487
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by harrisonreed »

No, you guys don't get it -- it's Peter Steiner! I heard the horn comes with a certificate promising that he playtested it for at least an hour, they didn't clean it afterwards, and that a small piece of his robe/bones/ash is integrated into a hidden reliquary within the rotor casing.

It also promises that they'll do a free update to B pull on the borrowed kissbone wrap once they figure out the bugs -- that's new territory and no one has done that before.
StevenHolloway
Posts: 364
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 10:49 am

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by StevenHolloway »

IMO Steiner made the wrong move switching to Bach just like Alessi made the wrong move switching to Shires. Maybe it was a better business deal, but it wasn’t a better deal for their sounds...
RustBeltBass
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:56 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by RustBeltBass »

I am not writing this in response to the Steiner model which obviously I haven’t played (nor has anyone else here from what I gather). But generally speaking and in my very humble opinion I feel Conn Selmer has one major problem:

They can not seem to fix the fact that they are producing horns that are not as good as horns with the same brand names (although very different ownership/built etc) that were built 30, 40 or more years ago. That is not to say they are doing a bad job of course. But if the legacy is bigger than their current product, that is a problem.

When I think of professional colleagues I had the chance play with or next to, I’d say the majority plays Edwards or Shires. Of those who I know to play Bach 42/50 models, I’d say the majority of them plays horns that are old(vintage) or heavily modified/improved horns (Greenhoe comes to mind). I can not think of too many people I play or played with who play Stock Bachs, made within the last 20 or so years.

What all of them have in common is their love for this classic and unique Bach sound that often has been discussed. I am not working in the instrument building industry and I am sure there are many good reasons for why they do what they do in terms of marketing and product release that I just don’t understand because of a lack of information but I can not help but think that it would make more sense to improve their quality standards to what they were decades ago, rather than trying to join the competition for custom horn options which they will not be able to succeed in against the many options Shires and Edwards and others offer.
Indiebass1993
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:13 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Indiebass1993 »

Burgerbob wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:21 pm
TheBoneRanger wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:23 pm When are the 50’s going to get some love?

Andrew
I think they are so much lower volume than the 42s that it's pretty far down the order. I'd love to see a HUGE streamlining of that particular model range...
Same here. I remember playing a 50AF3 a few years ago and was impressed. Played another, not so much. Ended up going with a Shires Curran model
olivegreenink
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:33 pm

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by olivegreenink »

Matt K wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:32 am I think the amount of equipment wonks is heavily over-represented here (*cough* me *cough*).
My thoughts exactly. I find that folks (pros and hobbyists alike) who join a dedicated forum for ANY topic are not representative of the average user. I have read these same sentiments on a whole host of other topics/sites over the years - few probably more pronounced than early-2000s car audio which had an assortment of boutique brands competing with a large number of national brands.

I cannot draw conclusions about CS’s sales, but can assume there are still plenty of schools and parents who are more comfortable with a “national name brand.” …perhaps even ESPECIALLY when the horn is in on the high end price wise. That contingent is likely far less than it was prior to the abundance of info/resources online to be sure, but I personally imagine it’s still a commonality among many making financial/purchasing decisions.

All that said, I also feel the $5k is relative. We could be talking about tubas, bassoons, pianos, cellos, harps, etc.

Personally I generally like my horns to be used and look used. I prefer even then to find something lesser known. But if I were ever in the market for a new horn, I know myself and I’d want a ton of obscure custom options - even though there is no way my playing would be able to showcase the subtle differences - all configurations would still sound like someone who has no need for a $5k horn lol.

Cheers
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3944
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Bach Steiner horn has arrived?

Post by Matt K »

olivegreenink wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 6:00 am
Matt K wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:32 am I think the amount of equipment wonks is heavily over-represented here (*cough* me *cough*).
I cannot draw conclusions about CS’s sales, but can assume there are still plenty of schools and parents who are more comfortable with a “national name brand.” …perhaps even ESPECIALLY when the horn is in on the high end price wise. That contingent is likely far less than it was prior to the abundance of info/resources online to be sure, but I personally imagine it’s still a commonality among many making financial/purchasing decisions.

All that said, I also feel the $5k is relative. We could be talking about tubas, bassoons, pianos, cellos, harps, etc.

Absolutely. Lots of people who are hobbyists and have the cash to burn too. $5k isn't all that much if you've been pulling in 150-250k a year for a decade and make an impulse purchase on vacation at ATW. It doesn't have to be the best horn for everyone, it just has to be liked by a couple dozen people at the right time every year. Probably not a huge obstacle to overcome when you're a name brand like Bach or Conn.
Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”