Antique Trombone Over Modern Trombone

[jonathonlivingston123]

As of recent, I acquired a 1908 Marvin Band Instrument Co. Trombone, serial number 6xxx. It was beat up, dented, and had its slide seized. I saw it HANGING from a Zip-Tie on the wall of Sherman's House of Antiques in Boulder City, Henderson, NV. I attempted my best to find people around the city to repair, but they charged INSANE prices beyond a 17-year-old. I was only able to play the partials in 1st positions, but the horn sounded gorgeous (much better than my Pbone, naturally). I was so disappointed...
HOWEVER, I found a horn of the same year in FAR better condition; the horn was repaired to great condition. The issue is, however, since the bore size of the slide is smaller, will this change how the horn plays, sounds, etc.? I would like any information in helping me understand how a 113-year-old trombone with small bore size plays.

Cheers! - John Crespo

[CheeseTray]

The instrument may be in high pitch; low pitch wasn't standardized in brass instrument manufacturing until the 1920s. It also may not blend well with those you play along side. You mentioned that you were 17. I would strongly encourage you to use the money that you want to spend on repair to buy a used, modern horn made by a 'name' manufacturer. Using an antique will only add to the difficulty of improving and will probably become a source of frustration for you. I don't mean to be a downer, but there's a reason that people don't often regularly play a horn that old. Good luck.

[BGuttman]

As the owner of several ancient trombones (80-100+ years old) you will find them in two sizes: High Pitch and Low Pitch. High Pitch is a trombone almost in B natural (as we play today), while Low Pitch is a tad flat to modern pitch.

Most instruments of that period were small bore and smaller. A "medium bore" of the period would be 0.485" and a small bore would be 0.465" -- almost the bore of a trumpet!

Trombones of the early part of the 20th Century generally had friction fit between bell and slide and no slide lock. These can combine to create problems for beginners (the instrument falls apart at the worst possible times).

Many of the period instruments have unusually small mouthpiece receivers intended for the smaller mouthpieces made at the time. A small shank modern mouthpiece will stick out pretty far. This will make a Low Pitch instrument even flatter, but it will not bring a High Pitch instrument down to modern pitch.

Small bore instruments tend to play rather "brassy" (strident, harsh). You might find one with very thick metal that could tame that a bit, but I wouldn't count on it.

Note that Marvin Band Instruments was probably a stencil made by a different maker for a music store. There were a number of instruments brought in from Eastern Europe at that time -- sort of like Chinese instruments today (and of similar quality).

My guess is that the slide of your Marvin Band Instrument trombone needed new slide tubes. If you can find such tubes, it will cost around $50 per tube (and you need 4) just for the tubes. Add labor to that.

I would suggest you look for something like an Olds Ambassador or Holton Collegiate trombone in playable shape for around $100 to get started playing.

[bbocaner]

These old instruments are a labor of love. They do have a really unique timbre, especially when played with a matching antique mouthpiece, but they often need a lot of work to make them fully playable. And they often have terrible intonation! The baritone I use in historic wind bands cost me a few hundred dollars to buy and about $3000 to have the valves replated and for a full restoration and rehab. I could buy a really nice modern euphonium for what I spent on it. And now it's still worth only a few hundred dollars. It's really only worth it if you have a place to play it.

[Windmill]

Hi! I own an old super small bore French trombone from around 1900. I love it, and found a matching mouthpiece from the same area. Due to the small bell and bore, i use it for trombone section recordings, for the upper parts and it sounds like a trumpet! But otherwise for all around playing, it lacks a lot of core unfortunately... As said before, there's a reason why trombone design changed in 100 years

[Splendour]

I have a number of British trombones of a similar vintage, Hawkes, Gisborne, Besson, Boosey.
I second bbocaner, they are a labour of love, and most at home in an ensemble of similar vintage.
Almost universally the slides have suffered with age and ill usage or inattention, and getting them playable again can be a real challenge. They never had and never will have the silky smooth slide action of a modern nickel coated slide, and for the old G bass trombones slide compression can become an issue.

All that said they can sound beautiful, and for all they don't provide the broad full sound of a modern orchestral trombone they truly excel when you want that bright tone to cut through or float over the rest of the band. Listening to the recordings of Arthur Pryor and his contemporaries around the turn of the centaury will give you an idea of what these instruments were capable of in more skilled hands then mine.

Also I have found the small bore (0.485 or less) tenors very good for playing quietly, particularly to accompany a single singer without overpowering them.

It's worth noting most of the friction fit slides use a similar taper so it is very easy to mix and match bells and slides from different manufacturers.