Best Small Bore Jazz Horn for Beginner

[gillish]

Hi all - I'm a sousaphone player visiting from TubeNet.

I'm looking to pick up trombone as an adult and need help picking out a small bore tenor horn. The style of music I play is jazz, dixieland, New Orleans street jazz, and I dabble in the Honk brass band scene as well. So think loud, lead, and high energy.

I'm willing to spend some cash to get a horn that I can grow into, but still want it to be one that's easier to handle as a beginner. Any suggestions on horns to consider? I am open to vintage and modern horns alike. My budget is $1,500.

I've been looking at vintage King 3B Silversonics because I currently play a 1912 Conn silver sousaphone with a gold wash bell and love the look and sound of those vintage bells. I also heard a few videos of a Conn 48H "Connstellation" and like the sound of the horn when it was pushed... but also I wonder if that's falling in the category of too much horn this early on.

So, what would you suggest for a guy like me? Vintage? Modern? And if you have a horn collecting dust that might fit the bill, let me know!

[BGuttman]

Welcome.

First, a SilverSonic (or Silvertone) has a solid sterling silver bell, not silver plate like your Sousa. You can get silver plated instruments, although they aren't as common as brass ones.

As a beginner you may find that a good student horn like a Yamaha 354 or King 606 will work fine. And if you are playing in hazardous situations, you probably don't want anything more expensive. Note that good used Yamaha 354 or King 606 trombones will cost way less than your budget -- more like 20% of it.

For Dixieland or New Orleans Trad I like a vintage instrument. And there are LOADS of them out there. Here are a few suggestions (other than the two I mentioned above):

Bach 6, 8, 12
Benge 170
Conn 4H, 6H, 24H, 44H (nice odd bracing, no bell wire), 48H, 100H (and others)
Holton 65, 67, 69
King 2B, 2B+, 3B
Martin Imperial (my personal choice for Dixieland), Committee
Olds Special, super, Radio
Reynolds Argenta
Yamana 651, 653

Lots of others as well.

[hyperbolica]

I've got a Wessex copy of a Martin Urbie Green trombone for $300 + shipping. It's a great 0.500" bore horn that you can use for just about anything. Nice sound, nice slide, decent case, looks good, no dents. I'm selling it because I fell in love with a Courtois 509 bore.

Pix: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/66zwps37pzz4 ... _mUPa?dl=0

[Doug Elliott]

Still on TubeNet? Me too. I hate the ads but have to give Sean credit for keeping it going all these years.

Either a 3B or 48H would be pretty much ideal for what you want, and cost less than your budget. Well a silversonic might be that much, but I'd go for a brass one.

Until you get started actually playing you won't really know which bore size will be best for you. Buy something cheap and save the rest of your budget for later.

[harrisonreed]

3B!

Even better, 3BF!

[gillish]

Still on TubeNet? Me too. I hate the ads but have to give Sean credit for keeping it going all these years.

Yup - still on TubeNet. I hate the ads too, but it's the only place to go to answer obscure tuba/sousa questions.

Question on the 3B - any tone difference between the brass bell vs silversonic or is it just a look? Seems like all the silversonics on Ebay and Reverb are actually above my price range. So it's probably best if I look for something else at this point.

[gillish]

Welcome.

First, a SilverSonic (or Silvertone) has a solid sterling silver bell, not silver plate like your Sousa. You can get silver plated instruments, although they aren't as common as brass ones.

As a beginner you may find that a good student horn like a Yamaha 354 or King 606 will work fine. And if you are playing in hazardous situations, you probably don't want anything more expensive. Note that good used Yamaha 354 or King 606 trombones will cost way less than your budget -- more like 20% of it.

For Dixieland or New Orleans Trad I like a vintage instrument. And there are LOADS of them out there. Here are a few suggestions (other than the two I mentioned above):

Bach 6, 8, 12
Benge 170
Conn 4H, 6H, 24H, 44H (nice odd bracing, no bell wire), 48H, 100H (and others)
Holton 65, 67, 69
King 2B, 2B+, 3B
Martin Imperial (my personal choice for Dixieland), Committee
Olds Special, super, Radio
Reynolds Argenta
Yamana 651, 653

Lots of others as well.

Thanks for all this information! I didn't realize that the SilverSonic's had solid sterling bells vs. the plate. That's pretty dang interesting.

And thank you for the suggestions on cheaper horns. It is probably best that I pick up something cheaper to get started on. I'll check these out. I wish it wasn't a pandemic so I could walk into a shop and test them before buying!

[Burgerbob]

I've got a Wessex copy of a Martin Urbie Green trombone for $300 + shipping. It's a great 0.500" bore horn that you can use for just about anything. Nice sound, nice slide, decent case, looks good, no dents. I'm selling it because I fell in love with a Courtois 509 bore.

Pix: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/66zwps37pzz4 ... _mUPa?dl=0

Buy that.

[Doug Elliott]

Yeah, that Wessex is probably a very decent horn, good price, and it won't need any work. Anything else you find will probably need something.

[gillish]

I've got a Wessex copy of a Martin Urbie Green trombone for $300 + shipping. It's a great 0.500" bore horn that you can use for just about anything. Nice sound, nice slide, decent case, looks good, no dents. I'm selling it because I fell in love with a Courtois 509 bore.

Pix: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/66zwps37pzz4 ... _mUPa?dl=0

Messaging you!

[hyperbolica]

Thanks for the plugs, guys!

[MagnumH]

Hey Gillish, and welcome! I’m largely the reverse of yourself - a NOLA brass band, street funk and trad player who started to dabble in sousaphone a year or so ago (largely in search of more gigs).

I initially played everything on a king 2B, which is an excellent lead horn. It’s about as small a bore as you’ll get on a modern horn. Recently I switched up to a King 3B/F. It’s a touch larger bore, a little fatter, more balanced throughout the range and, for me, a better all rounder. I save the 2B for playing lead in a big band or if I know I’m gonna be in the high range more often than not, but a 500-508 bore horn is really the best bet for anything, but especially your styles. That Wessex looks good - they’re one of the better Chinese companies copying the best horn designs out there. Failing that, browse the classifieds here, and you’ll find plenty. I love a King or a Reynolds, others love Conns though I’ve little experience of them.

I would suggest not worrying about the silver sonic at this point - you’re likely to pay a premium for those and I don’t think it’d get you the sound you want. I would suggest, however, opting for a used pro-level horn rather than something entry-level. There’s plenty in the market at a good price, and it’ll give you something to grow with, especially since you’re already a brass player.

Whilst you can’t visit a store to play test just now, there’s not much risk in the used horn market, if you buy from reputable sources (like the classifieds on this forum, for example). Chances are good you’ll be able to earn back what you spend if you don’t love a horn. People here will give you a good and fair price, both buying and selling.

I would also suggest having a mouthpiece consultation with Doug Elliott, especially if you’re planning on switching between sousa and bone on the same night. That’s a difficult transition, but having the right sized rim will definitely help you. A lot of us here play on Doug’s mouthpieces, and whilst that might be too much of an investment for a beginner, he can guide you towards the best size for you, and make sure your chops are working correctly.

[JLivi]

I would also suggest having a mouthpiece consultation with Doug Elliott, especially if you’re planning on switching between sousa and bone on the same night. That’s a difficult transition, but having the right sized rim will definitely help you. A lot of us here play on Doug’s mouthpieces, and whilst that might be too much of an investment for a beginner, he can guide you towards the best size for you, and make sure your chops are working correctly.

That's a great idea! A consult with Doug along with a used horn will be well within Gillish's budget. Especially if you buy that Wessex, which looks nice. I have no experience with those horns, but i bet that would be a good place to start, especially for the price.

[Goten56]

B&S had some small bore trombones that play great. They are discontinued now, but you could find one on the used market.