American/German trombone

[BigBadandBass]

Hey All, so I was wondering I could pick your brains and get some thoughts on my bass trombone. I have an older model B&S MS27 (about 8 years old now I think) nicknamed the "Sarastro" and not the current "Stolzing" monocur. It to me seems like an American-style trombone but made by Germans. I don't have the nickel on the outside of the bell or the new fancy-schmancy rotors seen on the site. But I do have: the large bore back end, 9.84-inch bell (buying a bell cover has been hell this year), the long corks, and the asymmetrical bows on my handslide and all my tuning slides.

here's the site page if you're curious: https://www.b-and-s.com/en/instruments/bass/ms27/

I don't have much experience with other instruments, but the other horn I play is a conn 71h from the early 70s and I was wondering, do those of you who have played these german/American modern horns notice a difference from things like the shires, Edwards and Bachs/Conns? I do hear a difference when I play my horn versus my friend's Edwards, but I am not sure if that is me trying to justify buying a weird out there horn over something that has an established presence here in the states, and is there really a difference these days between our "home-grown" makers and friends in the EU these days?

[Burgerbob]

I find that the German stuff (but not totally old German-style) like your horn are usually pretty good instruments, but they don't respond throughout the dynamic range like American instruments do. It's not a bad thing, just different. I've played most of the Thein, Laetzsch, B&S, etc models and a couple of them are really great, but I wouldn't choose them to play every day.

If you can make the sound you want and it works with the people around you, then great! For me, I'd have to choose something else.

[Finetales]

I've played a couple of Sarastros (prototype and an early production model). It's a dark orchestral bass trombone for sure, but despite some German features like the kranz and the water key button at the top of the slide, I would also describe it as a mostly American-style instrument. It certainly feels closer to American horns than to the Laetzsch German-style basses I've played.

If you like it and it works for you, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Being honest, the ONLY B&S tenor or bass trombones I've seen in the States are those owned by the man who helped design them (who was my professor in undergrad, hence why I got to play them a bunch). So you'll definitely be unique, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth your time. It does feel and sound different than Shires/Edwards/etc., but so does a Yamaha or Courtois or...

[MStarke]

Although I have not played a current B&S design, I am pretty sure that also thisline is an American-style trombone if you want to categorize it that way. Within American trombones it may be as different to others as e.g. a Conn is to a Bach.
But I am pretty sure that the difference to a Lätzsch/Thein/Voigt etc. is far bigger. Which is not a quality statement, but only related to the character. Quality is said to be great with B&S.

[MStarke]

Two things I want to add to further contribute to confusion
1 Also some of the "traditional" German makers have some more American-style trombones
2 German trombones among themselves can be very different, e.g. comparing Lätzsch to Thein

[UncleJenny]

Many German instrument makers build “American style” trombones. It’s what the market over here demands. Especially with amateur players.
Yet, they often have a higher build quality than many of the American production models. Also, for some players it’s important to support the national market.

Look, when I started playing trombone in the early 90ies it was all Bach, and Yamaha as beginner horns. At least around my area. Ten years later Edwards was the go to for aspiring college students. And so on with Shires. Traditional “German style“ trombone makers had a hard time competing with that. So they had to adapt in some way.