Slide widths

quiethorn
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Slide widths

Post by quiethorn »

Is there a resource anywhere for slide widths? Not bore sizes--widths. Manufacturers don't seem to include side width measurements in their specs, but it's a pretty important part of how a horn fits on your face.

Small horns tend to have narrow slides, large bore horns have wide slides, but I'm more interested in the widths of various horns in the middle. If no resource exists, we could easily create one here with forum members' input.
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SwissTbone
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Re: Slide widths

Post by SwissTbone »

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ithinknot
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Re: Slide widths

Post by ithinknot »

I've combined everything I could find in the archives, plus some additions (and minus Bruce's contributions that were measured to a different standard). Let's keep this going!

  • Outer-tube-to-outer-tube width measurements only, measured away from oversleeves/thicker-drawn sleeves/ferrules/brace flanges. Easiest to avoid any of these if you measure at the outer tubes, just above the crook ferrules or extrusions. See photo below.
  • Measurements in mm, rounded to the nearest whole number. There are bound to be minor variations between examples of the same model arising from the exact fit of straight ferrules onto slightly curved crook ends, or from past realignments - higher levels of precision would complicate more than inform. 1" = 25.4mm.
slide width.jpg
Width (mm) Model Remarks Reporter
63 Conn 44H ithinknot
64 Olds Standard FEWeathers
64 Olds Super FEWeathers
65 Olds Ambassador FEWeathers
65 Conn 30H FEWeathers
66 Conn 32H hyperbolica
68 Bach 6 NY and Mt. Vernon examples ithinknot
68 Bach 16M BellEnd
68 Holton TR102 ithinknot
68 King 3B FEWeathers
68 King 3B+ (2125) serial #897xxx jorymil
68 King 606 1981 although
68 King 607F 90s jorymil
68 XO 1632 ithinknot
68 XO 1634 dcslideman
69 Bach 8 NY calcbone
69 Bach 16M M/K Drawing
69 Besson 10-10 ithinknot
69 Conn 48H 1959 hyperbolica
69 Courtois AC402 Xtreme hyperbolica
69 Jiggs pBone color not specified quiethorn
69 King 2B 'Liberty' 1938 Estraven
69 King 2B soseggnchips
69 King 2BL Jiggs Whigham ithinknot
69 King 2B+ ithinknot
69 Schilke ST30 ithinknot
69 Schilke ST31 ithinknot
69 'Universal small tenor' M/K Drawing
69 Yamaha YSL 891Z ithinknot
70 Amati ASL 601 ithinknot
70 Conn 6H Elkhart 1952 although
70 Conn 6H FEWeathers
70 Conn 48H hyperbolica
70 Conn 100H ithinknot
70 Getzen 1050 hyperbolica
70 Martin TR4501 Urbie Green ithinknot
70 Rath R1 pre-modular ithinknot
70 Yamaha YSL 653 PhilE
71 Olds Recording FEWeathers
71 Olds Recording M/K Drawing
71 Olds Recording 1954 hyperbolica
71 Rath R10 2021 ithinknot
72 Selmer Bolero BellEnd
72 Shires MD ithinknot
72 Shires MD+ hyperbolica
74 Lawler 'Big Boy' .525 old model, 1999 SwissTbone
78 Conn 88H Elkhart 1969 Estraven
78 Conn 88HTCL Ted
78 Conn sl4747 hyperbolica
78.5 Kühnl & Hoyer Bart van Lier .500 K&H
78.5 Kühnl & Hoyer Bart van Lier .512 K&H
79 Blessing B8 soseggnchips
79 Conn 88H Abilene 1978 although
79 Conn sl2525 hyperbolica
79 B&S 3085B johnjenkins
79 Rath R4F #3XX ithinknot
79 Shires .525 Walleye
79 Yamaha YSL 356 Matt K
79 Yamaha YSL 445 dcslideman
79 Yamaha YSL 448 dcslideman
79 Yamaha YSL 641 PhilE
79 Yamaha YSL 882O Claudio
80 Besson 940 / 941 BellEnd
80 King 4BF 1980s Ted
81 Bach LT36B Corp., early/mid 60's Estraven
81 Bach 36 Walleye
81 Benge 190 soseggnchips
81 Conn 62HI ithinknot
81 Conn 70H 1955, opera wheel ithinknot
81 Conn 72H Elkhart johnjenkins
81 'Conn/Reynolds bass' M/K Drawing
81 Wide Glide aftermarket BellEnd
82 Conn 88H Abilene Estraven
82 Conn 72H hyperbolica
82 Conn 78H 1967 hyperbolica
82 Conn 79H hyperbolica
82 Yamaha YBL-322 Ted
83 Rath R4F #721 SwissTbone
86 Benge 290 ithinknot
87 Kühnl & Hoyer Slokar Performance Hawaiyan
87 Rath R9 ithinknot
88 Bach 42 glenp
88 B&H Sovereign Bass PhilE
88 XO 1240 johnjenkins
88 Yamaha YSL 820GII PhilE
89 Bach 50B fwbassbone
89 Bach 50B early Elkhart Corporation Hawaiyan
89 Courtois Challenger II johnjenkins
89 Edwards STDN wide tenor slide - yellow brass crook - early 2000s johnjenkins
89 Getzen 3047AFR quiethorn
89 Holton TR156 dual bore .547-.559, serial #634xxx ithinknot
89 Holton TR181 recent, Elkhart ithinknot
89 Kanstul 1662i hyperbolica
89 Olds S20 hyperbolica
89 Besson Sovereign BE942 PhilE
89 Shires QB62 Q36 bass boneberg
90 Shires QTW47 Q30 large tenor boneberg
91 Bach 50 SwissTbone
91 Edwards B-DBN SwissTbone
91 Shires B62-78 BOL SwissTbone
92 Greenhoe GB5 fwbassbone
93 Bach 42 SwissTbone
93 Shires q Series large bore SwissTbone
93 Shires TW47G TBC SwissTbone
94 Holton TR256 dual bore .547-.559, serial #613xxx Crazy4Tbone86
94 Shires TB47NLW SwissTbone
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Last edited by ithinknot on Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:44 am, edited 40 times in total.
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harrisonreed
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Re: Slide widths

Post by harrisonreed »

Interesting that the 79H is a cm wider than the 88H slides
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ithinknot
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Re: Slide widths

Post by ithinknot »

harrisonreed wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:53 am Interesting that the 79H is a cm wider than the 88H slides
? 82mm versus 78.5ish...

The minor difference between the two modern 88H slides is just a rounding discrepancy based on the narrower outer tubes on the .525 - it's possible that the same crook is used for both.
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harrisonreed
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Re: Slide widths

Post by harrisonreed »

ithinknot wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:08 am
harrisonreed wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:53 am Interesting that the 79H is a cm wider than the 88H slides
? 82mm versus 78.5ish...

The minor difference between the two modern 88H slides is just a rounding discrepancy based on the narrower outer tubes on the .525 - it's possible that the same crook is used for both.
Oh, wow, somehow I displaced a number in my head slydexically. In read the 89 on the next line. Pay me no heed.
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SwissTbone
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Re: Slide widths

Post by SwissTbone »

Keep in mind those may be rough measurements. I'm not sure everyone has a caliper to measure slide width. So some measures may be off by 1 or 2 cm.

Is still gives a very good idea as to the ergonomics of a slide if someone needs a wider slide
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FEWeathers
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Re: Slide widths

Post by FEWeathers »

Scratching my head over that Olds Ambassador measurement, 'cause mine is the same as the Super, and Standard, though a little shorter than them. So, 64.5 (2.54").

Got another one for the list: King 3B - 67.8 (2.67").
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boneberg
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Re: Slide widths

Post by boneberg »

What about Shires TW47 and TB47?
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ithinknot
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Re: Slide widths

Post by ithinknot »

FEWeathers wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:20 am Scratching my head over that Olds Ambassador measurement
I looked again at the M/K website - they give an inner width of 2.75", but the center-to-center measurement indicates a much smaller crook, in line with your measurements. So that must be a typo. Thanks -that's been corrected, and I've added the King to the list.
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ithinknot
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Re: Slide widths

Post by ithinknot »

SwissTbone wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:16 am Keep in mind those may be rough measurements. I'm not sure everyone has a caliper to measure slide width. So some measures may be off by 1 or 2 cm.

Is still gives a very good idea as to the ergonomics of a slide if someone needs a wider slide
Hopefully they're off by 1 or 2 mm :good:

But yes, and that's why we needn't worry too much about decimal accuracy... the value of the info is comparative, rather than absolute.

Keep 'em coming!
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SwissTbone
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Re: Slide widths

Post by SwissTbone »

ithinknot wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:42 am
SwissTbone wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:16 am Keep in mind those may be rough measurements. I'm not sure everyone has a caliper to measure slide width. So some measures may be off by 1 or 2 cm.

Is still gives a very good idea as to the ergonomics of a slide if someone needs a wider slide
Hopefully they're off by 1 or 2 mm :good:

But yes, and that's why we needn't worry too much about decimal accuracy... the value of the info is comparative, rather than absolute.

Keep 'em coming!
Oh yes. Mm not cm.
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paulyg
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Re: Slide widths

Post by paulyg »

Wouldn't it make more sense to compare center-to-center distances? Add one outer tube diameter to that inside measurement, or subtract one tube diameter from an outside measurement.
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hyperbolica
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Re: Slide widths

Post by hyperbolica »

paulyg wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:28 am Wouldn't it make more sense to compare center-to-center distances? Add one outer tube diameter to that inside measurement, or subtract one tube diameter from an outside measurement.
Yes, center to center would be better, but the error factor would go up. At least inside to inside gives hard stops to measure to,

My measurements were made with a 4 place (imperial) digital caliper. Nearest MM seems a little limiting. One decimal in mm wouldn't be overkill.
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ithinknot
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Re: Slide widths

Post by ithinknot »

hyperbolica wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:49 am Yes, center to center would be better, but the error factor would go up. At least inside to inside gives hard stops to measure to,

My measurements were made with a 4 place (imperial) digital caliper. Nearest MM seems a little limiting. One decimal in mm wouldn't be overkill.
Same here - or .01mm, if I want. For the purposes that this info might be used - "is it likely to fit around my 'roid-enhanced monster neck?" - extra precision didn't seem necessary.

My intention was to avoid discouraging those without calipers from contributing, in the hope that we would get more models covered :good:
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SwissTbone
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Re: Slide widths

Post by SwissTbone »

Here are some more:

Bach 50: 91
Edward's B-DBN: 91
Shires B62-78 BOL: 91
Rath r4f 721: 83
Shires tw47g: 93 Anyone can confirm that?
Bach 42: 93
Shires tb47nlw: 94
Shires q Series large bore: 93
Lawler big boy old model: 74
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Re: Slide widths

Post by boneberg »

Thanks SwissTbone! Especially for the specs on the Shires and Bachs.
Anybody have anything from Getzen large tenor and bass?
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Re: Slide widths

Post by quiethorn »

Thanks, guys. This is awesome. In particular, the .525 horns are what I'm after, so good to see the Bach 36 and others on there.

I don't have calipers, but my Getzen 3047AFR looks to be about 89mm.

I'm also interested in the widths of the medium-bore Yamaha horns if anyone has one. I played one for a couple years a long time ago, but I can't remember what I thought about the slide width.
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paulyg
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Re: Slide widths

Post by paulyg »

SwissTbone wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:22 am Here are some more:

Bach 50: 91
Edward's B-DBN: 91
Shires B62-78 BOL: 91
Rath r4f 721: 83
Shires tw47g: 93 Anyone can confirm that?
Bach 42: 93
Shires tb47nlw: 94
Shires q Series large bore: 93
Lawler big boy old model: 74
Notice how the Bach 42 and Bach 50 yield different measurements under this system. The real center-to-center measurement should be exactly the same, since they have the same crook, but since the Bach 50's outer slide tubes are bigger, the measurement here is smaller.
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ithinknot
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Re: Slide widths

Post by ithinknot »

paulyg wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:42 pm Notice how the Bach 42 and Bach 50 yield different measurements under this system. The real center-to-center measurement should be exactly the same, since they have the same crook, but since the Bach 50's outer slide tubes are bigger, the measurement here is smaller.
No one's disagreeing with you, and the reason for the (ergonomically insignificant) discrepancy will be obvious to anyone who cares enough to think about it.

The point here was to be able to retain measurements already reported in the forum archives and, more importantly, to make it as easy as possible for other users to contribute without necessarily requiring calipers or calculations.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed so far!
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Re: Slide widths

Post by Elow »

I was wondering why the bollinger slide had a smaller distance than the other shires
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Re: Slide widths

Post by LeoInFL »

ithinknot wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:01 pm
paulyg wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:42 pm Notice how the Bach 42 and Bach 50 yield different measurements under this system. The real center-to-center measurement should be exactly the same, since they have the same crook, but since the Bach 50's outer slide tubes are bigger, the measurement here is smaller.
No one's disagreeing with you, and the reason for the (ergonomically insignificant) discrepancy will be obvious to anyone who cares enough to think about it.

The point here was to be able to retain measurements already reported in the forum archives and, more importantly, to make it as easy as possible for other users to contribute without necessarily requiring calipers or calculations.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed so far!
It would take at most (2) additional measurements to get the center-to-center distance on any outer handslide.

'Worst' case is a dual bore slide (assuming the difference in bore isn't accomplished by using a thicker gauge inner slide tube):
1) measure the full width of the top outer tube then divide that by 2
2) measure the inside gap between the outer tubes
3) measure the full width of the bottom outer tube then divide that by 2
4) add those (3) numbers together will give you the center-to-center distance

A single-bore handslide is easier (per the example above, think of it as half of the top tube + half of the bottom tube = just the full width of either top or bottom):
1) measure the full width of either top or bottom outer slide tube
2) measure the gap between the outer slide tubes
3) add those (2) numbers together will give you the center-to-center distance
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Re: Slide widths

Post by ronnies »

Elow wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:01 pm I was wondering why the bollinger slide had a smaller distance than the other shires
Dual bore slide so thicker lower tube makes the gap smaller?

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ithinknot
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Re: Slide widths

Post by ithinknot »

Blerg, internet. I've explained the practical reasoning enough. If you'd like to provide a longer list, measured to a standard of your choosing, go right ahead.

You're offered a free cookie. Take the cookie, or don't.

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Re: Slide widths

Post by SwissTbone »

I think the way it is done here is good enough. ithinknot made a great job compiling the data. Thanks for that!
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Re: Slide widths

Post by Ted »

My 88HTCL: 78mm
YBL-322: 82mm
King 4BF (80s) 80mm
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Re: Slide widths

Post by quiethorn »

SwissTbone wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:07 am I think the way it is done here is good enough. ithinknot made a great job compiling the data. Thanks for that!
Yep, it'll be a great help for those poking around online for used horns wondering "I wonder how wide the slide is compared to my XX horn."

Hey, here's another one to add: Jiggs pbone 69mm :mrgreen:
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Re: Slide widths

Post by jjenkins »

Using a digital caliper, I've measured the following:

78.5 mm - B&S 3085B
81 mm - Conn Elkhart 72H
88 mm - Jupiter XO 1240
89 mm - Courtois Challenger II
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Re: Slide widths

Post by quiethorn »

I like the remark on my pBone, "color not specified" :biggrin:

It's red, btw. :pant:
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ithinknot
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Re: Slide widths

Post by ithinknot »

quiethorn wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:30 pm :biggrin:

:wink:

... and thanks, John and Ted.
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Re: Slide widths

Post by PhilE »

This is great information.
I have a YSL 653 in mint condition but it is so uncomfortable to play because of the narrow slide.
I recently went to a local music shop to try out some of the latest Yamaha medium and large bore tenor bones with F attachment.
On every one of them the slide width was such that the valve made contact with my jaw.
I'll post a few measurements from my collection shortly.
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Re: Slide widths

Post by jjenkins »

89 mm - Edwards STDN (wide tenor slide - yellow brass crook - early 2000s)
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hyperbolica
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Re: Slide widths

Post by hyperbolica »

Courtois ac402 Xtreme, .508 bore - 69.0 mm
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Re: Slide widths

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 »

There was a time, possibly late 1980s, in which Holton had some exceptionally wide slides. I have a TR-256 (dual bore .547-.559, serial #613xxx) slide that is 94 mm.

I remember finding and installing a Holton bass crook on a custom horn several years back. The shop I bought it from said that the crook had been sitting in a parts bin for many years and was simply labeled "Holton Bass." It was VERY large/wide....wider than my TR-256 and noticeably wider than the standard Bach 42/50 crooks. I remember that the inside bore was .608 inch and I would estimate that the width of the slide was at least 95 mm. Now I wish that I would have measured and recorded the width!
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ithinknot
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Re: Slide widths

Post by ithinknot »

glenp wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:45 am I decided to get a new K&H Bart Van Lier .500. I contacted K&H and they measured both the .500 and .512 between the top and bottom tubes, and they were 78.5 mm.
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Re: Slide widths

Post by PhilE »

YSL641 79 mm
YSL653 70 mm
YSL820GII 88 mm
Besson Sovereign BE942 89 mm
B&H Sovereign Bass 88 mm
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Re: Slide widths

Post by soseggnchips »

Another one for the list:

King 2B - 69mm
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Re: Slide widths

Post by Oslide »

ithinknot wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:49 am I've combined everything I could find in the archives, plus some additions (and minus Bruce's contributions that were measured to a different standard). Let's keep this going!
I wanted to know a few slide widths, remembered there was something on the forum, and found your fine compilation.
I know it must have been quite some work to pick out all the data, and I want to give you a big "Thank You" for your efforts!
Ceterum censeo to fetch All of TTF
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Re: Slide widths

Post by Joebone »

This is a seriously useful thread, deserving of sticky status! Thanks to all whom made this happen...
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Re: Slide widths

Post by fwbassbone »

Here are two more. Greenhoe GB5 92 and my 50B 89. I don't know why my 50 is slightly narrower than the others listed. I measured it twice just to be sure.
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Re: Slide widths

Post by Hawaiyan »

I have a Bach early Elkhart Corporation 50B single with 89. Also my K&H(Kühnl & Hoyer) Slokar Performance is 87.
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Re: Slide widths

Post by Oslide »

Can anybody quote the slide width (outer-tube-to-outer-tube) of the Yamaha YSL-356G which is the dual bore model (.500 - .525)?
Thank you!
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Re: Slide widths

Post by Matt K »

Oslide wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:20 pm Can anybody quote the slide width (outer-tube-to-outer-tube) of the Yamaha YSL-356G which is the dual bore model (.500 - .525)?
Thank you!
If you don't get an answer in a few weeks, message me and I'll have access to mine and can measure for you
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Re: Slide widths

Post by Estraven »

I’ll add in my $0.02, for what it’s worth. All four of these are in my possession.

Conn 88H, Abilene (I think, s/n is obliterated): 81.5mm
Conn 88H, Elkhart ‘69: 78.0mm
King 2B “Liberty”, ‘38: 68.7mm
Bach “Corp.” 36B, lightweight slide, early/mid 60’s): 80.5mm

That Abilene slide measurement is interesting (so interesting, I remeasured both slides twice) because its so different from the Elkhart and from the Gen II slides. The slide end crooks are also different designs.
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Re: Slide widths

Post by although »

Here are some more data points!
Conn 88H (Abilene 1978) 79
Conn 6H (Elkhart 1952) 70
King 606 (1981) 68

Cheers!

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Re: Slide widths

Post by Matt K »

Just measured my 356 slide; it's 3 1/8" (3.125") or 79.375 mm for the 356 I have.
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hyperbolica
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Re: Slide widths

Post by hyperbolica »

Olds Recording 1954 2.80 inch 71.1mm

78h 1967 3.23 in 81.97mm

48h 1959 2.72 in 69.2 mm
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ithinknot
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Re: Slide widths

Post by ithinknot »

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:10 am There was a time, possibly late 1980s, in which Holton had some exceptionally wide slides. I have a TR-256 (dual bore .547-.559, serial #613xxx) slide that is 94 mm.

I remember finding and installing a Holton bass crook on a custom horn several years back. The shop I bought it from said that the crook had been sitting in a parts bin for many years and was simply labeled "Holton Bass." It was VERY large/wide....wider than my TR-256 and noticeably wider than the standard Bach 42/50 crooks. I remember that the inside bore was .608 inch and I would estimate that the width of the slide was at least 95 mm. Now I wish that I would have measured and recorded the width!
...and the one I'm looking at here (not far off in serial no - #634xxx and still long pre-CS acquisition) is 89mm. Holton does seem full of shenanigans
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Re: Slide widths

Post by quiethorn »

Kind of a long shot, but does anyone have a measurement on a JP Rath JP331 or JP231 since I'd guess they're the same?
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Re: Slide widths

Post by Claudio »

very useful table
my Yamaha Xeno Bb/F is 78.6mm (by caliper) inner slide
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