Quarantining a new horn

[Arthurtwoshedsjackson]

I’ve recently acquired a brand new rotary cornet from Wessex that arrived 9 days ago, so it was packed 10+ days ago. I asked the Wessex rep when it might have last been play tested and they didn’t know for that specific horn, but, if it was played, probably around the time they received it from the factory roughly 3 weeks ago. I haven’t yet opened the shipping box.

If this was a new straight trombone, I would (and have) fill each section with 70% isopropyl alcohol, let them sit for 5 min, rinse thoroughly with water and be good to go.

I’m concerned about possibly damaging the valves on the new horn, plus there is a more complex ‘circuit’ to douse with alcohol and I might miss something.

The horn is now likely safe to handle externally. How long would you wait before playing assuming that you skipped my disinfection routine? I’m not finding much about virus viability times on wet surfaces - e.g., potentially the interior of the horn. I know that exposure to dry raw brass will deactivate the virus in the short term, but I was thinking ~3 weeks from the day it arrived to be sure. I’m not in a rush. Better safe than sorry.

I was also thinking about removing the valve slides and running air from an aquarium pump through the main circuit for several days. That’s how I dry out my live steam locomotive boilers.

Dillon is quarantining horns left for repair for 5 days, but I don’t know if they play test during/following repair.

Thanks.

[bassboy]

I’m concerned about possibly damaging the valves on the new horn, plus there is a more complex ‘circuit’ to douse with alcohol and I might miss something.

I wouldn't worry too much about that, it shouldn't hurt the internals of the horn. Just get that isopropyl alcohol into as much of the inside of the instrument as possible. Your thought of filling it for 5 minutes and thorough water rinse after seem like good ideas. Maybe hit the inside of the leadpipe with a small toothbrush or some cotton swabs, also with rubbing alcohol; ditto for the spit valve. Then, wipe away/degrease all slides and let them sit for some minutes with the alcohol on the contact points (you can also douse a rag and wipe the contact points as well). I would then take apart and hand dry as much of it as possible, leave all the parts out on a towel, then wait a day for them all to air dry. Then oil valves, grease slides, reassemble, play. I would caution against waiting 3 weeks only to do nothing before playing. This all is more work, but there's more than 'rona out there. My $.02.

I was also thinking about removing the valve slides and running air from an aquarium pump through the main circuit for several days. That’s how I dry out my live steam locomotive boilers.

I never would have thought of that, could be a nice supplement to air-drying. Whatever you do, I'd still let whatever parts you can disassemble sit out for a day after you're done with the cleaning and rinsing.

[ithinknot]

Most places I've seen are quarantining 3-5 days in and out, and that's probably fine if their staff are still vertical.

But personally I wouldn't play anything without cleaning it first, regardless of time, because cleaning requires very little effort and entirely eliminates the effort of worrying about it...

Take the valves apart completely, so you know you're getting everywhere, and then just give it a nice soapy bath. Snake brush, leave it submerged for a few mins, etc. Soap is extremely effective at breaking up the virus particles, and poses no risk to lacquer (unlike alcohol, especially if given a lengthy residence time).

Don't worry too much - soap is great, and restaurants aren't having to Everclear and gamma ray their cutlery.

When I got a new-to-me used trombone a few months back, I also corked up the slide and gave it a 10 min chem clean with vinegar prior to snaking and bathing, but only because there was a lot of limescale buildup.

[JLivi]

I was under the impression that COVID dies on metal surfaces after 5 days. So I'm sure you'll be ok.

I would definitely clean out the instrument if you can, I just don't know anything about cornets. But I bet you'll be fine regardless of what you decide to do.

My wife whose in the medical field recommends 7 days just to be safe. But she knows nothing about brass instruments. So take that for what it's worth

[Arthurtwoshedsjackson]

Thanks everyone.

I was on the verge of being lazy, but I’m a bit of a belt and suspenders guy, so I decided:
-Wait 3 weeks from arrival before unpacking/handling
-Internal soap and water scrub
-Internal alcohol bath
-Rinse, air dry and lube

From what I can determine, I don’t have the tools (or skill set) to disassemble rotary valves. I haven’t encountered any issues with lacquer damage with 70% isopropyl on new trombones.

[JohnL]

A combination of heat and time will break down the virus. You got a nice hot car you can leave the horn in for a couple days?

[Bach5G]

The local repair shop lets an incoming horn sit in the case for 5 days before working on it.

[Posaunus]

Do you set your food aside for several days before consuming?

Common-sense recommendation:
• Give it a bath with soapy water (soap kills the virus if present).
• Use alcohol if you are still worried, but probably overkill unless there's lots of caked-on grunge from a previous user.
• Dry it as best you can, inside and out.
• Let it sit in a warm place for several hours.
• Assemble, lube, and play!

[Bach5G]

The latest research indicates that the greatest risk of transmission is from aerosols and airborne droplets.

[ithinknot]

Well, now that you own some rotary valves, and will want to maintain them properly in future, this is the time to acquire the tools (or skill set) to disassemble them

[Arthurtwoshedsjackson]

Re: food
Yes, 5 day minimum (almost always longer) in porch or shed unless refrigeration/freezing required; those items are kept in clean bags until needed.

Re: hot car
Winterish in my realm (Central NJ)

Re: tools/skill
Researching now

As an aside, Wessex ships to the U.S. via DHL and setting up the signature release for contactless delivery was very easy with a quick phone call. Much easier than for UPS, which is a pain for just about everything where I live.

[Dennis]

Cleaning the instrument won't hurt anything. SARS-CoV-2 isn't all that hardy a virus: even a mild disinfectant like low-order alkane alcohols (like propanol) will clear it. Soap and water will do better.

In almost all of the US community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is running wild. Transmission via surface contact is negligible. I would give it a good cleaning with dish soap and warm water and call it good.

There is really no reason for shops to be quarantining horns now. If the tech is wearing nitrile gloves and observes basic precautions (don't bring the gloved hands to your face, etc.) the risk is minimal. If we were not in a community-spread situation where SARS-CoV-2 transmission is concerned, transmission via surface contact might be an important source. Under the current situation, there is no hope of tracing contacts to find the contaminated surface.

[Doubler]

Microbes, including viruses such as SARS-CoV-2 can survive on copper and copper alloys for several hours. Think about this for a moment.

[BGuttman]

Microbes, including viruses such as SARS-CoV-2 can survive on copper and copper alloys for several hours. Think about this for a moment.

Several hours is a lot less than several days. We are constantly learning more about the virus. Originally we thought it lasted for minutes on a surface. Now it seems that the more porous the surface the longer it lasts, but not more than a few days. So if it's been in transit for a week it's probably safe; even the soft material in the case.

That said, a good wash on a new (used) horn is always a good idea.

I don't know if it has been evaluated for COVID, but silver has antibiotic properties. We used silver laced membranes as part of a water purification system.

[Posaunus]

Cleaning the instrument won't hurt anything. SARS-CoV-2 isn't all that hardy a virus: even a mild disinfectant like low-order alkane alcohols (like propanol) will clear it. Soap and water will do better.

In almost all of the US community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is running wild. Transmission via surface contact is negligible. I would give it a good cleaning with dish soap and warm water and call it good.

There is really no reason for shops to be quarantining horns now. If the tech is wearing nitrile gloves and observes basic precautions (don't bring the gloved hands to your face, etc.) the risk is minimal. If we were not in a community-spread situation where SARS-CoV-2 transmission is concerned, transmission via surface contact might be an important source. Under the current situation, there is no hope of tracing contacts to find the contaminated surface.

Thanks, as always, Dennis, for a scientific- and fact-based response. I doubt that anyone has contracted Covid-19 from a trombone sent in the mail, or from food purchased at a grocery store or farmer's market. By now, it's pretty clear that the primary transmission vector is exhaled "droplets" from infected individuals; the longer the exposure to such droplets, the greater the risk of transmission.

To be safe:
• Wear a reasonably tight-fitting face mask (not a bandana or a plastic shield)
when near anyone other than your direct family.
• Keep your distance from others – especially indoors.
• Don't share your air!
• Get the vaccine (both doses if necessary) when it's available to you.
• [Strongly] Encourage others to follow the same protocol.

[JohnL]

Beyond the science of surface transmission, there's the psychology. Keeping stuff clean can help give some people a sense that can at least control SOMETHING.

Another thought. Even if COVID-19 transmission via surface contact is a very low risk, many other diseases are more commonly transmitted in that manner. Taking basic precautions (wash your hands and don't touch your face) reduces you risk of catching them - and having to deal with the attendant "is it COVID-19 or something else?" situation. I missed a few days of work last spring because I was running a fever for a couple days due a minor bacterial infection.

[Arthurtwoshedsjackson]

Thanks again, everyone.

This is a new horn that might have been play tested at some point before shipping and might have residual moisture inside the tubing. There is no way to know. I have a plan in place that’s probably overkill, but I have a lot of extra time on my hands and not in a rush, so that’s fine. No harm, no foul.

[Elow]

I leave horns that come through my shop in the case for a week before i open it and i haven’t gotten anything yet, let’s hope it stays that way

[Dennis]

Beyond the science of surface transmission, there's the psychology. Keeping stuff clean can help give some people a sense that can at least control SOMETHING.

Another thought. Even if COVID-19 transmission via surface contact is a very low risk, many other diseases are more commonly transmitted in that manner. Taking basic precautions (wash your hands and don't touch your face) reduces you risk of catching them - and having to deal with the attendant "is it COVID-19 or something else?" situation. I missed a few days of work last spring because I was running a fever for a couple days due a minor bacterial infection.

Handwashing levels are much, much higher than they were a year ago. There is direct evidence (sales of handwashing soaps are up substantially), anecdotal evidence (I don't habitually go to public restrooms, but occasionally I need to when I'm out for groceries: before COVID, about 1 fellow in 5 would even rinse his hands after leaving a urinal. Now, it's closer to 1 in 5 who doesn't wash up using soap), and indirect evidence (I have a couple of respiratory disease trials that are having trouble recruiting because the incidence of respiratory diseases other than COVID-19 are down).

With so much out of our control right now, controlling what we can is important.

[marccromme]

From what I can determine, I don’t have the tools (or skill set) to disassemble rotary valves. I haven’t encountered any issues with lacquer damage with 70% isopropyl on new trombones.

Well, you can strip Bach and Cerveny lacquer of older instruments with hot soap water, vinaigre or alcohol of most kind. Ask me how I know ...

Other laquers are more durable, like King or Yamaha epoxy laquer.

[Arthurtwoshedsjackson]

My new horn is now clean as a whistle.

I decided a two week wait before unpacking was adequate. I did two complete washes with dish soap and warm water, a good rinse with water, two alcohol rinses, water rinse, dry, lube done. No lacquer damage.

The horn:
https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/tr ... ornet-cr15

plays pretty well. I play with a practice mute 95% of the time to avoid discomfort due to hearing issues and this horn plays in very good tune muted, with the lead pipe pulled out quite a bit.

Fit and finish are much better than previous Jin Bao horns I’ve owned (Selman alto t-bone; Mack BBb tuba). Valve action is smooth.

It’s not a trombone, but I’m very pleased.

Cheers.

[bassboy]

My new horn is now clean as a whistle.

I decided a two week wait before unpacking was adequate. I did two complete washes with dish soap and warm water, a good rinse with water, two alcohol rinses, water rinse, dry, lube done. No lacquer damage.

The horn:
https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/tr ... ornet-cr15

plays pretty well. I play with a practice mute 95% of the time to avoid discomfort due to hearing issues and this horn plays in very good tune muted, with the lead pipe pulled out quite a bit.

Fit and finish are much better than previous Jin Bao horns I’ve owned (Selman alto t-bone; Mack BBb tuba). Valve action is smooth.

It’s not a trombone, but I’m very pleased.

Cheers.

Nicely done, and I wager about as disease-free as a socially distanced HAZMAT crew in a convent!