Keep 2, sell 2...

[Jimbbob]

I really have enjoyed my time in perusing this forum, and marvel at all the different perspectives here. I've learned so much about this crazy instrument and the knowledge I've gained here has deepened my enjoyment of playing. I've also, um, acquired a few horns over the last 18 months and have come to the stark realization that I really can only play one at a time! So I've got 4 horns, and I really only need 2. I would like a small bore and medium/large bore. That should cover my amateurish playing, 3rd part in the local big band and a larger horn for the church gig, or if I jump into the concert band scene. (I'm a returning player after a 30 year absence).
Here's what I've got:
Conn 4h- Elkhart late 50's. Beautiful sound, but really too small for 3rd part. I may get promoted to a higher chair at some point, but am in no hurry for that. I realize this is a lead horn and would hate to get rid of it should that opportunity arise
King 3bf- .508. Solid horn for my role right now. I've got a 12C, and a 6 1/2 that can offer some flexibility. Trigger itself is loud and a bit stuffy. I have a world class tech here locally that can help out with that no problem, and if I decide to keep this, it would need a little work. Could work as a lead horn, even with trigger?
Yamaha446G- .525. Perfect in every way. Immaculate. Slide is perfect, trigger is smooth and silent. No blemishes, like new. Haven't played it in Big Band yet, but would think this would easily fit in on the third part. Also, as I pull out my Rochut book to practice, this horn is far easier to play than...
F. Schmidt- .547. Also in perfect shape. I posted about this one a while back. Pretty sure this horn was made in Germany. ULW3 slide. Amazing weighting and beautiful sound. Just a bit more difficult to play than the Yamaha.

To me, I either keep 2 and 4 or 1 and 3. I swear I change my mind every day. What say you? (Please take this in the lighthearted spirit it's posted- it's a great problem to have and really just want opinions of folks who have far more experience playing than me). I do need to thin the herd though....
Thank you!

[Elow]

For me, i would keep 2 and 3

[spencercarran]

Keep 2 and 3. 3bf can still work fine on lead with the right mouthpiece and in the meantime is a great section horn for big band. 446g is plenty big enough for church gigs and concert band, and the best instrument for you is going to be the one you can play without feeling like you're doing more work than you need to.

[ithinknot]

Fun! 1 and 3. You like the Yamaha and it works well, and a 525 is going to be just fine on amateur 3rd chair.

If you like the Conn on its own terms, it may be worth considerably more to you than the money you'll get selling it. Demand and prices for 4Hs aren't too high, but they're great horns, and perfect for lead if you end up doing that.

Conversely, the 3BF is very easy to sell, and equally easy to replace if you later decided you wanted to pick up another (possibly better) example. (Also, it's the only horn you didn't specifically compliment - everything else gets an enthusiastic adjective or two, whereas the King is 'solid' )

Of course, if you could only keep a single horn, the 3BF (fixed up) would probably be the answer, but that's a very different question.

[Posaunus]

Tough decision! I know nothing about the Schmidt, and little about the Conn 4H. But I'll stick my neck out anyway.

If properly tuned up by your tech, the King 3BF is a fine and flexible trombone. With the right mouthpiece (perhaps not a 12C, maybe an 11C or 7C) it can be a fine lead horn. [The lead player in one of my bands pays one quite successfully.] and with a larger piece (say 6½AL size) it can make a noise almost like a large bore. Very versatile, and suitable for all the playing you describe.

The Yamaha 446G is, as you already know, a wonderful trombone – also versatile but not ideal (too large) for big band lead. It should be more than fine for church gig, big band 3rd, concert band 2nd or 3rd, and orchestra 2nd parts.

The 4H is considered by most to be too small for current big band sound – especially to those who listen with their eyes. For the playing you're doing, you may not need a large-bore tenor, so the Schmidt may sit in its case for quite a while.

Others will surely have different opinions and advice!

[BGuttman]

I'm pretty sure Schmidt is a stencil, and maybe Chinese. Given that you have to work hard to make it play, I think it's the first one on the chopping block. If you were planning to do orchestra I might change my mind, though.

The 4H is pretty small by modern standards and would be dispensable.

Properly adjusted the King 3B is a good "one horn do all" instrument. The 446 is almost as good (I know some amateur players who play lead in Big Band on Medium Bore horns). Yamaha trombones in general have great slides (except for very old ones with bad chrome plating). However, I don't think you need to keep both.

[LeTromboniste]

Assuming that number 4 is what it seems to be, I say keep 3 and 4. Maybe also 1.

The Yamaha is a great all-around choice and has the most versatility. The 3B is the only real redundancy I see in your line-up. It doesn't give you anything that either the Yamaha or 4H can't give you. If you play mostly 3rd, the Yamaha will get you covered, with the benefit that you can use it for other things where the King doesn't fit so well (concert band or most classical playing). If you ever play lead then take out the 4H. Resale value of the 4H is low, but on the other hand you could sell it for now, and easily find another horn later if you ever end up needing a small bore tenor (old 2B or 6H wouldn't be very expensive), and it might end up being a better fit too.

And even though you might use it the least at the moment, I would absolutely keep the "F Schmidt". From the other post, it seems to be a Courtois 380 or 420 sold as a stencil, which makes sense why it would be a bit hard for you to play: those are Bach 42 clones, and 42s notoriously take some time getting used to when coming from smaller horns. You said you paid 225$ for it, that's ridiculously cheap for any intermediate or professional level .547 Bb/F. Really absurdly cheap for almost any trombone. And probably about eight times less than it would have cost had it had "Courtois" written on it instead, for the same horn. Resale value probably very low (and hard to sell) just because of the brand. Maybe a good idea to check with Brook Mays see if anyone can confirm that it was indeed made by Courtois/B&S, but if it's the real deal, you will absolutely never, EVER get another deal like that should you want to buy a large bore tenor down the road; it's got the lowest resale value but the highest replacement cost among your stable. If it turns out it's not actually a Courtois/B&S-made instrument, then yes, sell it.

[LeTromboniste]

I'm pretty sure Schmidt is a stencil, and maybe Chinese.

The F. Schmidt brand were apparently Courtois instruments sold under that stencil name before they later got them made in China. From the pictures in the other thread, it looked very much like a Courtois. And ULW3 is a Courtois slide model number, it is (or was) the "ultra-lightweight" slide option for the large bore horns. Could be that Brook Mays got the Chinese manufacturer to copy the stencil horns they were selling (although I'm not sure why they'd go so far as copying the part numbers on the slide).

[JLivi]

Like many, I would also keep 2 & 3.

If the 4h is too small for you then it’s too small. You can do a lot of damage with a 3b and 446.

If you go higher than 3rd chair in big band than just pop the 12c in your 3bf, or a 7C. And honestly, the 6 1/2 would work perfectly fine in those scenarios too.

And I bet the 446 sounds great in a church. Just my 2 cents.

Edit: but if it’s between 1&3 or 2&4 I would keep 1 & 3 because I’d rather walk into gigs with a Conn or Yamaha over a King & Schmidt. But I love the king 3b

[harrisonreed]

Keep the king 3bf, at least. I don't know why the rotor would make it any different for lead than a regular 3B.

It appears like you don't have the large bore horn you're looking for yet, so I would get rid of all three of the other horns listed. If you actually do like the .547 , then keep it.

[Jimbbob]

Fascinating reading the opinions on here! Thank you, keep em coming. Although I’m more conflicted now than I think before i started.
Regarding the Schmidt: I got a lot of varied opinions from you folks when I posted on here last time. Some of you who worked at brook mays in the early 2000’s convinced me of the quality of this horn. And as I said at the time, coming from a Bach Corp 42b, the Schmidt plays and sounds better. It’s not difficult to play, but more so than the Yamaha which is logical. I’ve listed it for sale but it’s exhausting trying to convince a high school parent about the quality and pedigree of this horn with no good documentation. If it’s not a popular brand, there’s no demand.
I think the 4h is on the block. I’ve seen you guys mention Yamaha 354’s as perfectly fine lead horns should the need arise. Right now i think the 4h is odd man out.

[Posaunus]

I’ve listed [the Schmidt] for sale but it’s exhausting trying to convince a high school parent about the quality and pedigree of this horn with no good documentation. If it’s not a popular brand, there’s no demand.

You might have better luck selling the Schmidt to a TromboneChatter than to a high school parent!

I think the 4h is on the block. I’ve seen you guys mention Yamaha 354’s as perfectly fine lead horns should the need arise. Right now i think the 4h is odd man out.

Reasonable decision. Decent small-bore (0.500") trombones are easily obtained.

[hyperbolica]

Oh, just keep the 3b. It can play anything the others can and it might be the most enjoyable to play.

[jbeatenbough]

I'm going to cheat... I would keep 1,2 AND 3... it is too hard to choose between letting 1 or 3 go. If you have too much invested in 1 and 3 then sell #1.
I would WAY rather have the 4h than a 354 hammer (I own a 354 and can easily tell the difference in records between it and any of my other horns - and not in a good way). They are a good trombone for the money, but not really a substitute for a really good one (now lets argue if a 4h is a really good one...hahahaha).

[Mamaposaune]

If you are selling because you need the $, or even if you're not, I say sell the 3B and keep the others.
The 3B will likely have the most value, possibly equalling 2 of the others, and is pretty much interchangable with the Yamaha.
That will leave you with 3 really nice tenors that should cover any playing situation you find yourself in.
And your F. Schmidt was made by Courtois in Germany, it is a re-branded 420. I had one for awhile, it played as well as my Bach Lt42B but I had no reason to keep both. The ULW-3 on the slide gives it away. Unfortunately they are somewhat hard to sell because the later F. Schmidt's were made by Blessing (B-88's) and then imported from China, so most people don't know how good they were. (Or, they've never heard of them and assume it's just another cheap Chinese horn)

[Vegasbound]

Keep the 3b sell the rest

Do you really need a large bore? Unless your playing with a pro orchestra the 3b with 6 sized mouthpiece will be legit enough

[JohnD]

Oh, I know this quite well....

Yamaha446G- .525. Perfect in every way. Immaculate. Slide is perfect, trigger is smooth and silent. No blemishes, like new. Haven't played it in Big Band yet, but would think this would easily fit in on the third part. Also, as I pull out my Rochut book to practice, this horn is far easier to play than...

If this one plays best for you, you answered your own question. Sell the others if you do not really have to use them. Or you may want to keep the King 3B/F as a spare tire. It' s versatile...

Greetz, John

[Jimbbob]

Thank you to those who shared their thoughts. Update: I put the Yamaha up for sale, and it was immediately claimed by a mom who was looking for an upgrade for her middle school son. Perfect scenario. I know this kiddo will be thrilled with this horn, even while I had a pang of seller's regret. I have posted the 4H in various places, (FB, CL, some other Trombone groups). Lots of interest, but not a lot of buying interest. This horn seems hard to find "comp's". I've seen everything from $175 to $599 online.
That would leave me with the 3BF and the F.Schmidt. I'm keeping the 3BF. I've priced the F. Schmidt as to the quality of the horn, not the name on the bell. (ie similar to a used Bach 42BO in nice condition). I'm in no hurry to sell it, but at the same time do not foresee any legitimate use of it for me in the immediate future.
Thank you again to those who took the time to share their insight!

[LeTromboniste]

Thank you to those who shared their thoughts. Update: I put the Yamaha up for sale, and it was immediately claimed by a mom who was looking for an upgrade for her middle school son. Perfect scenario. I know this kiddo will be thrilled with this horn, even while I had a pang of seller's regret. I have posted the 4H in various places, (FB, CL, some other Trombone groups). Lots of interest, but not a lot of buying interest. This horn seems hard to find "comp's". I've seen everything from $175 to $599 online.
That would leave me with the 3BF and the F.Schmidt. I'm keeping the 3BF. I've priced the F. Schmidt as to the quality of the horn, not the name on the bell. (ie similar to a used Bach 42BO in nice condition). I'm in no hurry to sell it, but at the same time do not foresee any legitimate use of it for me in the immediate future.
Thank you again to those who took the time to share their insight!

That's a good approach for the Schmidt. If you're able to sell it for what it's actually worth then you'll have made a nice profit on it at best, or at worst covered the cost of replacing it in the future should you need to buy a large bore again.